How Three Friends Created Pocket Bard, a Game Changing RPG Audio App - Interview 28

Show Transcript

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You're listening to the shuttle class size

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version of this episode with Frank and Chris.

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To get access to the galaxy class size version,

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member of the awesome nerdpreneur board.

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Now enjoy the episode.

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Welcome to Nerdpreneur,

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where we have fun conversations with people

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making money from their nerdy passion.

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My name is Chris, and as always,

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I'm joined by my co host, Frank.

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Hello.

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And today we have three, count them up,

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three very special guests.

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They are the founders,

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owners and leadership team

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of a company called Pocket Bard.

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Their names are Alex Berner, Chase Harris,

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and Jason Kovalski.

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Welcome to the show, guys.

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Thanks for having me.

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Thank you.

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Thanks for having us.

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So, Pocket Bard, what is your nerdy passion?

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Interactive audio for tabletop gaming.

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Nice, nice. Well, for all of our listeners

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who may not be in that space, what is that?

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What is interactive music? Or. Tell me more,

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tell me more. Tell us. Yeah. What is this?

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So it's easiest to understand

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by comparison with non interactive audio.

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So let's say you're playing a game of d and d,

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and you want to set the stage.

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So you open up your

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favorite streaming platform for music.

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You queue up a playlist

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that fits the mood perfectly.

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But as anybody who's played

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a tabletop game or a tabletop RPG,

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knows the mood changes.

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You go from scene to scene,

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from points of action to points of reflection,

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and you want that mood to change. And ideally,

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just like when you're

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watching a movie or something,

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the music and the atmosphere

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should change with the mood.

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Well, if you're on

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your favorite streaming platform,

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as great as they are,

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there's some difficulty in changing that mood.

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You got to go and find the right playlist.

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Maybe you have something curated beforehand.

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But even then,

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if you curate for every possible thing,

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that could happen,

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now you're talking about

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scrolling through different playlists,

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and that just gets heavy handed. Right?

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So that's non interactive audio.

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We did was we took our

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experience in the game audio space.

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There's a whole lot

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of technology behind video game audio,

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and we said we can build something that lets

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you use all these adaptive strategies to

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make it easy at the table to switch the music,

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the sound effects,

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the ambience to exactly what you need in the

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moment with as little interaction as possible.

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One button, click here,

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a little tweak of a slider there,

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and all of a sudden,

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the music is perfect and

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you can focus back in the game.

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Nice. That's really helpful for, I think,

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people who may not know

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anything about what Pocket Bard does.

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And I want to clarify for people,

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this is an app, right?

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So you guys are a downloadable awesome app,

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and it basically for people

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who maybe don't play tabletop RPG's,

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my layman's terms of this is it basically

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gives me the ability to play atmospheric

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music at any point in the game based

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on wherever these players want to go.

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So if I want to be in a tavern, I

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can find something that sounds like a taverny.

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And if I want to go to a place

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that's more of a chilling haunted house,

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I could be able to move into that

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atmosphere and have it become that while

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I describe what that actually looks like.

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And I

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looked through your app a bit, and, Frank,

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did you use the app?

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Did you do any homework for this or.

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I actually have a bit of an anecdote

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about what Chase was just talking about. Yeah,

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I heard about Pocket

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Bard a couple months ago, actually,

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it was an ad on Instagram that you guys had.

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Instagram has me figured out pretty good.

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That algorithm works for us.

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Yeah, only the ads, though.

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The ads are nailed down.

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So your money was.

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Was well placed on that front. And.

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And it was funny because then,

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like a month later,

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Chris sent me this video from when you guys

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were at a trade show and I was like, Chris,

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I know about these guys. Like,

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what's your point?

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I thought he was cool.

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Yeah. I was like, oh, yeah,

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that's a great idea.

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So I had downloaded your app,

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and I had chase.

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You explained my pain point to a T.

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I have literally made a dozen

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plus podcasts or not podcasts,

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playlists with different music. I was

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trying to pull them up. I have, like, suspense.

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D and D suspense.

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I have D and D exploration d

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and d crafting d and d big boss battle.

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D and D smaller boss battle. You know,

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I had all of these playlists,

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and it was just.

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It was a cool idea,

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but then I had to go out and also find

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the music because the other people who've

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created these playlists don't have the same

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perspective that I do.

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And so I wanted something very unique.

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So then when I discovered your guys's app,

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I just thought, my God, this is like,

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where has this been? And you actually,

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what you said that was super interesting,

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was that it was from video game tech,

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which makes so much sense. Did

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any of you guys work in video game, or did you?

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Yeah. So Chase and I, at the end of college,

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we were college roommates,

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and both in video game audio minors,

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different sections of it.

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I was more in the music composition,

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and Chase was more in the, like, audio design,

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but we had a good pairing of skills.

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So right towards the end of college,

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we decided to start a video game.

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Audio company got pretty sidetracked,

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started making games

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instead of audio for games.

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Had a lot of experiences there,

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which will inform a lot of some of, like,

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a lot of our takeaways, I think,

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for future questions

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when we're talking about business, but, yeah.

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So there was a few years there

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where we were really focused on

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creating interactive audio for games. Right.

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Like looking for indie games to score,

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stuff like that.

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So that's where our expertise came,

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and we were kind of at a lull of stuff we

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were working on and basically just got

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this idea and been working on it ever since.

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Yeah, it's a really good solution. And I

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did use it in one game not too long ago,

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I downloaded the ship packet,

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the nautical ship themed one,

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and it was very fun.

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And one of the things I really loved about it,

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because I've used some of the

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older programs that are out there,

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respect to them and them kind of paving

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the way as they did over those years.

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But I always had to mess with them.

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I always had to correct them.

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Something would go wrong.

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But the cool thing was, with pocket Bard,

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I totally got to forget about it,

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and I set the intensity.

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I would every now and then add some sound

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effects like the weather and ambiance,

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but it was great and

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the players very much enjoyed it.

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What stood out to me was

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how simple it was for an app, because, I mean,

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when people have an app,

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I'm always like, seriously, all right,

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I gotta go download this thing. And then

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getting into an app, it's like, frustrating,

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usually that kind of thing. I was like,

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in and playing music within like a few,

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like a minute.

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It was really actually quite impressive.

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And you had, it was like, okay,

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the app came up,

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told me exactly what to do,

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and I didn't have to pay

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anything either to actually

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start testing the product and using it.

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So there's free music on there when you start.

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That is decent, good.

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And you can actually implement into

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your game and not just like one track.

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And then you try to upsell me to, like,

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every other track, there's like a. A

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bunch of different dozen different atmospheres

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that I can select from. I still, like,

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put campfire overlaid onto things. Like,

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it was a great

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experience just from that standpoint.

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So this leads into my questing, and we're

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going to get into some business stuff here.

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Cause I know you guys

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like to get to that streamlined.

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I want to just say, like,

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you guys have a rating on your.

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You have pretty

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good ratings on your app already, like 4.3

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with 1000 some odd votes. You have, like,

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248 reviews on the Apple podcast

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on the Apple Store with 4.8 rating. Like,

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this is good. Like,

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this is really solid

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amount of traction with your app.

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So I'm curious,

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where do you start when you're built? Like,

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when did you guys get into building an

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app and how did that come out to be, like, your

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business idea and how does that get started?

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So I was late to tabletop rpg's. Now,

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I love tabletop rpg's.

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I play D and D with my wife every week,

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and I love it,

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but that wasn't always me.

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And I think it was 2018 when I played

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my very first game of D and D and

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immediately fell in love with the experience.

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I roped my wife in,

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roped some other friends in,

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and we had this incredible guy who

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was dming for us who he knew how to

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tailor the experience for what we wanted.

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And I'm talking,

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he had miniatures,

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he had terrains,

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he was doing all this voice acting,

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and he had music playing.

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But then there were these moments

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that I kept noticing of the action

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would change and he would say, all right,

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role for initiative.

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And things would kind of pause and even

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the experienced players around the table,

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the pace kind of lulled,

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and people would take

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out their phones and check Twitter.

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And I was like, what's happening? Well,

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he's back behind the DM screen,

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heads down in his laptop,

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picking a new playlist.

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And then eventually, oh, okay,

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the cool music started great,

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and we're back into it. And, you know,

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that was not the end of

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the world as far as an experience went.

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00:11:18,860 --> 00:11:20,990
But after having that a couple

275
00:11:21,020 --> 00:11:22,870
of times and having some conversations,

276
00:11:23,210 --> 00:11:25,390
I kind of said to him,

277
00:11:25,580 --> 00:11:27,200
how would you like if I built

278
00:11:27,230 --> 00:11:29,070
you an app where all that work

279
00:11:29,100 --> 00:11:33,770
you're doing that takes you 45, 60, 90 seconds?

280
00:11:33,890 --> 00:11:34,750
What if that was one

281
00:11:34,780 --> 00:11:36,380
button click or two button clicks?

282
00:11:36,470 --> 00:11:37,640
And we kind of talked

283
00:11:37,670 --> 00:11:39,030
a little bit about what he would need?

284
00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:40,710
And then I brought the idea to Alex,

285
00:11:40,780 --> 00:11:42,790
and we just blossomed from there

286
00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:44,780
about how do we make this experience

287
00:11:44,910 --> 00:11:47,390
a lot easier and build it into this

288
00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:50,330
interface that we're able to construct?

289
00:11:50,490 --> 00:11:52,090
We're familiar with.

290
00:11:52,270 --> 00:11:53,760
Everybody's got their

291
00:11:53,790 --> 00:11:55,520
smartphones at the table anyway.

292
00:11:56,340 --> 00:11:59,760
And so that was the origin of the idea

293
00:11:59,890 --> 00:12:03,030
and why that design philosophy of making

294
00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:05,720
this thing the easiest possible thing to use,

295
00:12:05,790 --> 00:12:08,390
so that you don't repeat that experience

296
00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:12,400
of being heads down for too long as a DM,

297
00:12:13,100 --> 00:12:14,590
that really informs

298
00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:16,800
everything we've done thus far.

299
00:12:17,420 --> 00:12:19,880
Totally kills the momentum when people do that.

300
00:12:20,250 --> 00:12:21,070
And in the end,

301
00:12:21,100 --> 00:12:22,700
there's thousands and thousands

302
00:12:22,710 --> 00:12:25,440
of hours of amazing audio out there, right?

303
00:12:25,470 --> 00:12:27,470
There's dozens of films,

304
00:12:28,370 --> 00:12:29,730
more than dozens of

305
00:12:29,770 --> 00:12:31,700
film scores that are incredible,

306
00:12:31,790 --> 00:12:33,960
been recorded by professional orchestras,

307
00:12:34,030 --> 00:12:35,830
with professional mix engineers.

308
00:12:36,850 --> 00:12:38,730
There's incredible audio out there.

309
00:12:38,850 --> 00:12:40,510
What we're offering really

310
00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:42,890
is just a comprehensive solution.

311
00:12:43,010 --> 00:12:43,760
It's the tool,

312
00:12:43,830 --> 00:12:45,870
it's the delivery of it.

313
00:12:47,070 --> 00:12:48,280
The goal is to save people

314
00:12:48,330 --> 00:12:49,740
time and attention because in the end,

315
00:12:49,770 --> 00:12:51,670
those are such limited resources,

316
00:12:51,830 --> 00:12:54,710
especially when you're already in a session

317
00:12:54,750 --> 00:12:57,730
where you have basically two to 8 hours,

318
00:12:57,780 --> 00:12:59,570
who knows how long people's sessions are?

319
00:12:59,680 --> 00:13:02,000
But that amount of time to deliver

320
00:13:02,130 --> 00:13:04,570
a great experience to your players,

321
00:13:04,740 --> 00:13:09,030
and if even 5% of that is bogged down

322
00:13:09,150 --> 00:13:11,350
by the kind of stuff chase was saying,

323
00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:12,870
searching for stuff,

324
00:13:13,210 --> 00:13:15,430
trying to figure out what to do in real time,

325
00:13:16,370 --> 00:13:17,870
that's a long time.

326
00:13:18,020 --> 00:13:20,920
That's maybe half an hour when

327
00:13:20,950 --> 00:13:24,040
you add it up over a long session. So

328
00:13:24,110 --> 00:13:27,790
we're offering a time saver, attention saver,

329
00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:29,510
so you can focus more on the game

330
00:13:30,570 --> 00:13:33,310
and just really focusing on.

331
00:13:33,890 --> 00:13:35,670
We've been trying to establish kind of like

332
00:13:35,700 --> 00:13:39,730
company philosophies that we adhere to,

333
00:13:39,850 --> 00:13:42,910
and these generally evolve naturally.

334
00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:44,270
And one of them that I'm always

335
00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:46,800
referencing is product first right?

336
00:13:46,910 --> 00:13:48,630
If it doesn't serve the product,

337
00:13:49,690 --> 00:13:50,550
we need to be really

338
00:13:50,580 --> 00:13:53,230
careful about doing it right. Like,

339
00:13:53,340 --> 00:13:54,890
is this making the app better?

340
00:13:55,010 --> 00:13:57,930
Is this making the customer experience better?

341
00:13:58,090 --> 00:13:59,740
Is this improving the UI?

342
00:13:59,790 --> 00:14:00,710
Is it making.

343
00:14:00,860 --> 00:14:02,570
Is this an extra button? Click? Like,

344
00:14:02,610 --> 00:14:05,680
we've been very deliberate about every little

345
00:14:05,730 --> 00:14:09,010
design choice we've made with conceptualizing.

346
00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:11,880
When somebody's setting up a scene,

347
00:14:12,660 --> 00:14:13,860
what are they thinking of first?

348
00:14:13,900 --> 00:14:14,930
Are they thinking mood?

349
00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:16,680
Are they thinking music?

350
00:14:16,770 --> 00:14:17,940
Are they thinking?

351
00:14:18,100 --> 00:14:19,120
What is their imagination?

352
00:14:19,190 --> 00:14:20,080
How are they crafting it?

353
00:14:20,090 --> 00:14:22,010
And how can we best adhere

354
00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:23,920
and replicate that in the app to

355
00:14:23,950 --> 00:14:26,560
make it as user friendly as possible?

356
00:14:27,740 --> 00:14:31,090
We also view the app as never done right. Like,

357
00:14:31,130 --> 00:14:31,890
we're trying to get

358
00:14:31,930 --> 00:14:33,520
those ratings up higher and higher.

359
00:14:33,590 --> 00:14:35,070
We're trying to improve everything.

360
00:14:36,130 --> 00:14:38,210
When we find a better solution to do something,

361
00:14:38,290 --> 00:14:40,000
we'll probably do that.

362
00:14:40,190 --> 00:14:43,110
Right? We're not resting on our current design.

363
00:14:43,260 --> 00:14:45,370
We did a post recently on Instagram

364
00:14:45,530 --> 00:14:47,510
that showed all the design iterations

365
00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:49,550
of the app. There's been, like, seven,

366
00:14:49,970 --> 00:14:52,270
and I'm sure there'll be many more.

367
00:14:52,850 --> 00:14:55,840
So you're talking about the pathing the

368
00:14:55,950 --> 00:14:58,920
user experience to better suit the app.

369
00:14:58,970 --> 00:15:01,320
And then you were talking about

370
00:15:01,410 --> 00:15:03,440
all the different iterations you've had.

371
00:15:03,740 --> 00:15:07,920
How long have you been working on this app?

372
00:15:07,950 --> 00:15:09,400
To get to this point?

373
00:15:10,620 --> 00:15:14,480
We started in August 2019 and

374
00:15:15,060 --> 00:15:19,400
had a bit of a lull in the COVID times,

375
00:15:21,060 --> 00:15:24,720
but have been going really, like,

376
00:15:24,750 --> 00:15:29,260
focused really hard on it since. Jason,

377
00:15:29,380 --> 00:15:30,650
when did you come on. It was like,

378
00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:31,400
when you came on.

379
00:15:31,450 --> 00:15:34,630
That's when we all really got to work.

380
00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:37,760
I think it was around 2021, the COVID period.

381
00:15:37,830 --> 00:15:40,400
Right. Or maybe shortly after that. I forgot.

382
00:15:41,140 --> 00:15:42,300
Yeah, I think so.

383
00:15:42,460 --> 00:15:43,960
But we first released

384
00:15:44,340 --> 00:15:45,820
like a year and a half ago, I think.

385
00:15:45,860 --> 00:15:46,160
Right.

386
00:15:46,230 --> 00:15:47,720
Or has it been two years? Almost.

387
00:15:49,230 --> 00:15:49,660
Wow.

388
00:15:49,730 --> 00:15:51,160
Yeah, it's almost two years.

389
00:15:51,210 --> 00:15:52,890
Two years in beta. Yeah.

390
00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:55,330
And a year in out of beta.

391
00:15:55,990 --> 00:15:59,020
So, Jason, what is your role? We haven't

392
00:15:59,050 --> 00:16:00,740
had a chance to hear from you yet.

393
00:16:00,930 --> 00:16:02,440
How do you play a part in this team?

394
00:16:02,490 --> 00:16:06,810
Yeah. So I am mostly on the technology side.

395
00:16:07,230 --> 00:16:09,470
I've known both of them for a long time now,

396
00:16:09,510 --> 00:16:11,290
like almost a decade now.

397
00:16:11,710 --> 00:16:13,930
I grew up with Alex in upstate New York.

398
00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:16,380
We went to middle school, high school together,

399
00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:17,570
and we both ended

400
00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:20,400
up going to college here in Boston, where I am.

401
00:16:21,420 --> 00:16:23,760
And then I actually also met Chase around.

402
00:16:24,300 --> 00:16:27,630
Was it freshman year, I think. Oh, yeah,

403
00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:30,040
because I got your roommates then. Yeah,

404
00:16:30,150 --> 00:16:32,610
but, yeah, I mean, we. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

405
00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,350
So I was a business major

406
00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:37,360
and then pivoted to software engineering,

407
00:16:37,860 --> 00:16:39,550
got a job out of college.

408
00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:40,720
And then these

409
00:16:40,750 --> 00:16:42,230
guys came to me and said, you know,

410
00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:43,290
we're working on this app.

411
00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:44,360
Maybe you can help.

412
00:16:44,500 --> 00:16:45,630
So that's when I kind of

413
00:16:45,700 --> 00:16:47,680
part time started to work on it,

414
00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:48,600
and at that point,

415
00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:50,450
I had no idea where this would go. Honestly,

416
00:16:50,500 --> 00:16:51,420
I was just, like,

417
00:16:51,530 --> 00:16:53,520
happy to help out wherever I could.

418
00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:55,920
So weeknights or weekends,

419
00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:56,660
whenever I could find,

420
00:16:56,710 --> 00:16:57,720
scrape away some time,

421
00:16:57,800 --> 00:16:58,940
I would work on this.

422
00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:01,430
And then the last year,

423
00:17:01,460 --> 00:17:03,460
we've just been getting so much traction,

424
00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:05,150
and I've been spending more

425
00:17:05,180 --> 00:17:08,180
and more time on pocket Bard. And actually,

426
00:17:08,310 --> 00:17:10,750
the start of this year, January 1,

427
00:17:10,819 --> 00:17:11,829
I decided to quit my

428
00:17:11,859 --> 00:17:13,660
day job and come on full time.

429
00:17:14,940 --> 00:17:17,310
So, yeah, very, very happy and

430
00:17:17,319 --> 00:17:18,560
grateful that I got to do that.

431
00:17:18,589 --> 00:17:20,450
Yeah, you made the leap.

432
00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:21,300
Yeah. Yeah.

433
00:17:21,420 --> 00:17:22,720
Congratulations, man.

434
00:17:22,790 --> 00:17:23,440
Yeah.

435
00:17:24,300 --> 00:17:25,210
Were Alex and

436
00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:27,560
Chase already full time in this? Was

437
00:17:27,589 --> 00:17:31,080
this already your full time gig? Yeah, yeah.

438
00:17:31,230 --> 00:17:32,070
So we didn't get

439
00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:34,410
to hear what your roles are. I know he's.

440
00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:35,990
Jason's born in the tech side and

441
00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:37,180
helped with a lot of that development,

442
00:17:37,260 --> 00:17:39,120
but what were you guys doing?

443
00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:40,690
Or what are your roles now?

444
00:17:42,710 --> 00:17:44,520
So I started out.

445
00:17:44,610 --> 00:17:46,360
When Chase first came to me with this idea,

446
00:17:46,410 --> 00:17:47,810
I was mainly the composer, right.

447
00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:49,970
So I wrote the music,

448
00:17:50,470 --> 00:17:52,250
generated the audio assets,

449
00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:54,880
and kind of split just the

450
00:17:55,050 --> 00:17:56,610
design and figuring everything

451
00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:59,640
else out that we had to do 50 50, I guess.

452
00:17:59,770 --> 00:18:02,210
And then back when we started

453
00:18:03,550 --> 00:18:06,430
being more like Jason came on and

454
00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:08,370
we started operating more like a business,

455
00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:11,030
I realized it would be helpful to

456
00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:12,680
have somebody just kind of take on the

457
00:18:12,730 --> 00:18:15,070
business leadership part of it. Right? Like,

458
00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:18,040
get paperwork filed, keep, you know,

459
00:18:18,110 --> 00:18:19,400
do our bookkeeping,

460
00:18:20,820 --> 00:18:24,840
keep an overall kind of

461
00:18:25,780 --> 00:18:27,830
view of the business strategy at all times,

462
00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:29,520
making sure everything's working together.

463
00:18:29,670 --> 00:18:31,970
So I kind of leaped into that role.

464
00:18:32,170 --> 00:18:33,750
I just pitched it to Jason.

465
00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:34,900
Jason just wrote

466
00:18:34,910 --> 00:18:37,070
up a long message one day. I was like, hey,

467
00:18:37,120 --> 00:18:39,010
so I think we need to move faster,

468
00:18:39,130 --> 00:18:40,820
and I think if I just kind

469
00:18:40,830 --> 00:18:42,250
of step into this role and help

470
00:18:42,290 --> 00:18:44,070
keep everything on track and organized,

471
00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:45,040
that'll be helpful.

472
00:18:45,110 --> 00:18:47,150
You guys can focus more on what you're doing.

473
00:18:48,050 --> 00:18:49,230
So since then,

474
00:18:49,340 --> 00:18:52,190
I've been the CEO role as well,

475
00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:53,270
although I hate saying

476
00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:55,280
that because of all the connotations,

477
00:18:55,390 --> 00:18:57,590
but it's what I do.

478
00:18:57,670 --> 00:18:59,630
So composer 50% of the time,

479
00:18:59,700 --> 00:19:02,340
CEO 50% of the time, and

480
00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:08,390
design app design as a team that we all.

481
00:19:08,420 --> 00:19:10,060
Do just kind of wear many hats.

482
00:19:10,110 --> 00:19:11,860
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

483
00:19:11,970 --> 00:19:12,910
It sounds like you guys

484
00:19:12,940 --> 00:19:15,380
are jumping around a dynamic team, for sure,

485
00:19:15,450 --> 00:19:17,540
and I'm really curious about what

486
00:19:17,570 --> 00:19:18,620
some of the lessons you learned about

487
00:19:18,650 --> 00:19:20,580
making that switch from composer to CEO's.

488
00:19:20,630 --> 00:19:21,910
But I also want to hear what

489
00:19:21,940 --> 00:19:23,760
Chase's role is before we get into that.

490
00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:26,310
So I'm sure that'll also

491
00:19:26,500 --> 00:19:29,060
include a lot of fascinating questions.

492
00:19:29,230 --> 00:19:32,220
So I always tell people

493
00:19:32,270 --> 00:19:34,990
my background is in audio technology,

494
00:19:35,140 --> 00:19:38,550
so I went to school for.

495
00:19:39,330 --> 00:19:41,540
I'm blanking on the name of my degree, but

496
00:19:41,550 --> 00:19:43,610
it's essentially an audio technology degree.

497
00:19:43,650 --> 00:19:45,630
Electronic production and design. There it is.

498
00:19:46,210 --> 00:19:47,870
And so that includes

499
00:19:47,900 --> 00:19:49,790
everything from audio engineering,

500
00:19:49,860 --> 00:19:51,310
being able to engineer

501
00:19:51,340 --> 00:19:53,270
and record and mix and master,

502
00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:57,300
to kind of the more technical side of things,

503
00:19:57,390 --> 00:19:59,830
of being able to take a piece

504
00:19:59,860 --> 00:20:01,970
of software that needs audio

505
00:20:02,100 --> 00:20:04,790
and create audio solutions for it.

506
00:20:04,900 --> 00:20:07,380
All of my programming abilities,

507
00:20:07,470 --> 00:20:09,780
so I also do some software development.

508
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:12,320
All of my programming abilities are self

509
00:20:12,360 --> 00:20:14,380
taught with a lot of help from my dad,

510
00:20:14,430 --> 00:20:16,730
who's a professional software architect.

511
00:20:16,900 --> 00:20:21,690
And so my role in Pocketbard is all

512
00:20:21,730 --> 00:20:24,740
things audio technology and more recently,

513
00:20:24,830 --> 00:20:26,190
stepping into leadership

514
00:20:26,650 --> 00:20:28,210
of the audio team as a whole.

515
00:20:28,290 --> 00:20:29,470
So everything

516
00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:32,720
from spearheading our latest project, which

517
00:20:32,750 --> 00:20:35,630
is we're working on some cool tavern music,

518
00:20:36,530 --> 00:20:39,070
to kind of having that high

519
00:20:39,120 --> 00:20:42,610
level vision of what the audio

520
00:20:42,730 --> 00:20:45,150
landscape in the app needs to look like,

521
00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:47,000
what kinds of music we're putting in it,

522
00:20:47,030 --> 00:20:48,860
how we're prioritizing different things,

523
00:20:48,990 --> 00:20:52,650
and then as we create new features,

524
00:20:52,820 --> 00:20:54,890
figuring out the implementation side,

525
00:20:54,980 --> 00:20:57,450
and from an audio technology perspective, like,

526
00:20:57,500 --> 00:20:59,250
how is that going to work if we want

527
00:20:59,380 --> 00:21:01,030
these sound effects to work this way?

528
00:21:01,070 --> 00:21:02,450
When somebody does this in the app,

529
00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:03,880
what does that look like as

530
00:21:03,890 --> 00:21:06,790
far as implementing the audio tech side?

531
00:21:06,950 --> 00:21:07,730
He's being humble

532
00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:09,260
on the software development side, too.

533
00:21:09,290 --> 00:21:10,890
He's written a lot of the code.

534
00:21:13,270 --> 00:21:13,860
For a while,

535
00:21:13,890 --> 00:21:15,010
there was a misnomer

536
00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:16,970
that I was the lead developer.

537
00:21:17,790 --> 00:21:20,090
I've been correcting people by saying,

538
00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:21,090
even though I've written

539
00:21:21,120 --> 00:21:24,970
a lot of the code for a long time, when

540
00:21:25,020 --> 00:21:27,070
Jason was just kind of moonlighting for us,

541
00:21:27,190 --> 00:21:30,890
it was his job to fix my mistakes as a higher

542
00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:34,010
level developer and software engineer than me.

543
00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:36,450
Even though I wrote more lines of code,

544
00:21:37,230 --> 00:21:38,980
it wouldn't be there without

545
00:21:39,170 --> 00:21:41,020
him looking over my shoulder.

546
00:21:41,170 --> 00:21:42,290
Catch it up now.

547
00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:44,700
It's really nice that the three of

548
00:21:44,730 --> 00:21:47,780
you have solid overlap with each other.

549
00:21:47,850 --> 00:21:50,210
Not only have you found your roles

550
00:21:50,260 --> 00:21:53,370
to make this machine move, you know, with.

551
00:21:53,420 --> 00:21:55,280
With three people, you know,

552
00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:58,930
we often talk with people who are solopreneurs

553
00:21:59,100 --> 00:22:00,730
and how they have to do everything,

554
00:22:00,780 --> 00:22:02,330
and they've got a different struggle.

555
00:22:02,460 --> 00:22:03,430
And then there's, you know,

556
00:22:03,460 --> 00:22:04,770
the situation Chris and I have,

557
00:22:04,780 --> 00:22:05,650
where there's the two of us,

558
00:22:05,660 --> 00:22:07,090
and we can kind of divide things.

559
00:22:07,140 --> 00:22:08,090
If one of us says,

560
00:22:08,180 --> 00:22:09,910
I'm not that great at that thing,

561
00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:11,040
how are you at it,

562
00:22:11,070 --> 00:22:12,180
and then the other says, actually,

563
00:22:12,230 --> 00:22:13,400
that's not that bad for me.

564
00:22:13,430 --> 00:22:14,400
I can do it. Sure,

565
00:22:14,510 --> 00:22:16,510
we end up divvying things up like that,

566
00:22:16,620 --> 00:22:18,540
but the three of you have found this role.

567
00:22:18,590 --> 00:22:20,060
I love to think of Alex,

568
00:22:20,190 --> 00:22:21,590
you are a musical composer,

569
00:22:21,620 --> 00:22:24,070
but you're also the composer

570
00:22:24,260 --> 00:22:26,590
to get people and every.

571
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:29,140
You're organizing an organizing composer,

572
00:22:29,190 --> 00:22:30,510
and I love that visual.

573
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:31,920
I'm already creating D and D

574
00:22:31,990 --> 00:22:33,950
classes in my head for you three.

575
00:22:34,850 --> 00:22:36,470
I'm trying to figure it out for everybody,

576
00:22:36,500 --> 00:22:38,730
but that one made sense to me pretty clearly.

577
00:22:38,850 --> 00:22:40,790
I'll get back to you on the other ones. But.

578
00:22:41,610 --> 00:22:43,520
So the three of you also,

579
00:22:43,670 --> 00:22:44,790
it stands out to me,

580
00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:47,930
fall into this classic startup story.

581
00:22:48,090 --> 00:22:49,230
It's like, yeah,

582
00:22:49,300 --> 00:22:50,800
pretty recently after college,

583
00:22:50,870 --> 00:22:51,910
me and some buddies got

584
00:22:51,940 --> 00:22:53,870
together and we started an app.

585
00:22:56,290 --> 00:22:56,810
How often

586
00:22:56,850 --> 00:22:58,710
does that actually work out, too, right?

587
00:22:58,780 --> 00:23:03,510
Yeah. Like Dropbox and Facebook and Pocket bar.

588
00:23:03,670 --> 00:23:04,120
Yeah.

589
00:23:04,190 --> 00:23:07,420
Well, I mean, part of the reason it

590
00:23:07,460 --> 00:23:09,070
is our overlap of skills that

591
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:10,680
we've been able to get to where we are,

592
00:23:10,710 --> 00:23:13,680
because software developers are expensive,

593
00:23:14,300 --> 00:23:16,980
and the amount of music I've written

594
00:23:17,020 --> 00:23:20,520
would have cost us a lot of money to, like,

595
00:23:20,670 --> 00:23:23,130
dozens and dozens and dozens of hours of music.

596
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:25,860
So by having us

597
00:23:25,940 --> 00:23:28,510
be the main team and not get paid,

598
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:31,360
we've saved ourselves. I mean, honestly,

599
00:23:31,410 --> 00:23:32,280
I'm sure it's over

600
00:23:32,350 --> 00:23:35,430
half a million dollars. Right. Like, that's.

601
00:23:36,050 --> 00:23:37,890
Could we have raised that money for this idea?

602
00:23:37,930 --> 00:23:41,190
I don't know who you know. It's. It's.

603
00:23:41,380 --> 00:23:43,630
If you can find the right pairings of

604
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:46,230
skills that save you the most money

605
00:23:46,300 --> 00:23:48,510
and have a team that works together well.

606
00:23:48,660 --> 00:23:50,150
Like, I don't know how we could have

607
00:23:50,180 --> 00:23:50,710
gotten to this

608
00:23:50,740 --> 00:23:53,790
point without this team specifically. Right.

609
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,460
And I really like this number. We.

610
00:23:56,470 --> 00:23:57,790
We've started expanding our team.

611
00:23:57,820 --> 00:23:59,030
We brought on our first employees,

612
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:00,580
which they've been to amazing,

613
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:03,740
but just getting started when

614
00:24:03,870 --> 00:24:08,390
everything's on the line and you have to

615
00:24:08,580 --> 00:24:11,820
kind of rely on the hope of it doing well.

616
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:15,150
I do think that the attitudes and the

617
00:24:15,180 --> 00:24:17,610
culture that you have are super important.

618
00:24:17,700 --> 00:24:20,140
I think we're all optimists,

619
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:24,100
or at least have a positive bias

620
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:26,730
towards what we're working on,

621
00:24:26,850 --> 00:24:28,720
and that's really helpful to be

622
00:24:28,750 --> 00:24:30,750
able to maybe when a feature

623
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,710
gets delayed by four months from

624
00:24:33,740 --> 00:24:35,720
when we were hoping to still be like, nope,

625
00:24:35,750 --> 00:24:36,760
we're going to get to it,

626
00:24:36,830 --> 00:24:38,950
and it's still worth doing.

627
00:24:39,810 --> 00:24:41,370
Yeah, we haven't made money. Yeah,

628
00:24:41,410 --> 00:24:43,150
we're out of money. Yeah,

629
00:24:43,850 --> 00:24:45,510
we need to pay the bills,

630
00:24:45,850 --> 00:24:47,310
but we just got to keep going.

631
00:24:47,420 --> 00:24:49,630
So I do think that that

632
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:53,560
is a difficult element to quantify,

633
00:24:54,020 --> 00:24:56,680
but has really worked out in our favor

634
00:24:58,060 --> 00:25:00,900
and just trusting each other. You know,

635
00:25:00,940 --> 00:25:03,250
we've known each other for a long time. Like.

636
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:04,040
Like Jason said,

637
00:25:04,070 --> 00:25:06,440
I've known him since he got there,

638
00:25:06,550 --> 00:25:09,370
got to our town in fifth grade,

639
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:12,080
and just became friends right away.

640
00:25:12,150 --> 00:25:14,950
I've known Chase since 2012 at this point.

641
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,510
So having that trust

642
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:19,440
also is really helpful as well,

643
00:25:19,470 --> 00:25:21,280
so you can rely on the other people

644
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,260
having a similar level of dedication.

645
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:28,060
Also, we're not worried about

646
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,130
somebody kind of bailing or, I don't know,

647
00:25:31,140 --> 00:25:31,990
just the kind of

648
00:25:32,020 --> 00:25:34,120
things that you hear about a lot, I think,

649
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:36,380
are things that we've avoided. Right.

650
00:25:36,430 --> 00:25:38,260
And that's very helpful.

651
00:25:38,390 --> 00:25:40,100
Not just the things that

652
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,620
have a positive impact on success, but

653
00:25:43,650 --> 00:25:46,260
avoiding the things that make stuff fall apart.

654
00:25:47,770 --> 00:25:49,550
Like, can you give an example?

655
00:25:50,890 --> 00:25:52,030
Put you on the spot right there?

656
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:55,190
Yeah. No, yeah, I'll give a specific example.

657
00:25:56,130 --> 00:25:58,330
Equity disputes or issues

658
00:25:58,410 --> 00:26:00,790
with ownership and what people

659
00:26:02,370 --> 00:26:04,140
contribute and what they own.

660
00:26:04,190 --> 00:26:05,390
That's something that

661
00:26:05,890 --> 00:26:08,350
we've tried to navigate very openly. Like,

662
00:26:08,380 --> 00:26:10,930
we trust each other to have those discussions,

663
00:26:11,010 --> 00:26:12,420
and we actually found a system

664
00:26:12,470 --> 00:26:14,540
to love to give a shout out.

665
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:16,460
It's called slicing pie.

666
00:26:16,510 --> 00:26:19,820
It's a dynamic equity system where, basically,

667
00:26:19,950 --> 00:26:21,060
your contributions

668
00:26:21,150 --> 00:26:24,590
to the business are quantified,

669
00:26:24,740 --> 00:26:26,100
and it changes over time.

670
00:26:26,150 --> 00:26:28,020
So it's dynamic equity.

671
00:26:28,360 --> 00:26:30,850
The time you put in based on your role is

672
00:26:30,940 --> 00:26:33,540
calculated with a multiplier into slices,

673
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,030
and so is any cash you put into the business.

674
00:26:37,180 --> 00:26:39,900
So anybody's ownership of the business at any

675
00:26:39,930 --> 00:26:43,350
given point is just how many slices they've

676
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,650
contributed over the whole of the team.

677
00:26:46,810 --> 00:26:50,030
So we were able to, you know,

678
00:26:50,120 --> 00:26:52,230
Chase could take a week off, and

679
00:26:52,300 --> 00:26:54,850
me and Jason wouldn't be like, hey, you got.

680
00:26:54,890 --> 00:26:55,760
Why'd you get a week off?

681
00:26:55,790 --> 00:26:58,090
We didn't get a week off. Like, you know,

682
00:26:58,210 --> 00:27:01,190
equity would dilute and vice versa.

683
00:27:01,220 --> 00:27:02,980
If you really put in a lot of time,

684
00:27:03,030 --> 00:27:04,380
that would be represented in

685
00:27:04,390 --> 00:27:06,760
your equity and it changing over time.

686
00:27:06,900 --> 00:27:10,220
So I think that's one thing we did

687
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:13,330
that was a systematized kind of

688
00:27:13,380 --> 00:27:16,020
approach to better facilitate

689
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:18,860
everybody feeling

690
00:27:19,010 --> 00:27:21,340
accurately or adequately valued.

691
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:24,480
But there's a level before that, too,

692
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:27,300
which is just the fundamental trust and

693
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,780
excitement and dedication to the product,

694
00:27:30,890 --> 00:27:33,070
and that sometimes just takes time.

695
00:27:33,260 --> 00:27:35,640
When somebody's been dedicating

696
00:27:36,220 --> 00:27:37,920
hundreds or thousands of hours to

697
00:27:37,950 --> 00:27:40,160
something over the course of four years,

698
00:27:41,100 --> 00:27:41,930
it can start to

699
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:45,560
count on people pretty confidently.

700
00:27:46,700 --> 00:27:49,030
Yeah. And, well, that's super interesting,

701
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:53,410
the dynamic flow of equity.

702
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:55,150
I'm guessing that that creates

703
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:57,830
a unique culture between the three of you, too,

704
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,780
where things continually get done as you see

705
00:28:01,830 --> 00:28:03,980
other people working and getting things done.

706
00:28:04,110 --> 00:28:05,980
It almost feels to me like

707
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:10,060
the dungeon master awarding loot. Right.

708
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:12,900
It's like based on experience, right? Like, oh,

709
00:28:12,930 --> 00:28:15,260
or you get this because you did more, right?

710
00:28:15,290 --> 00:28:16,490
Or you get more experience or

711
00:28:16,500 --> 00:28:17,830
an inspiration point or things like that.

712
00:28:17,860 --> 00:28:20,300
There's something weirdly fair by having

713
00:28:20,350 --> 00:28:22,660
it sort of be something outside of just

714
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,440
having to negotiate between each other.

715
00:28:25,610 --> 00:28:28,240
And it's interesting to see

716
00:28:28,270 --> 00:28:30,280
that that has actually created a good,

717
00:28:30,330 --> 00:28:32,400
cohesive environment within it.

718
00:28:32,410 --> 00:28:34,450
Do you think that being nerds who play D and D,

719
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:37,120
I'm assuming you all play D and D, but

720
00:28:37,250 --> 00:28:39,960
helped and contributed to that kind of being

721
00:28:40,260 --> 00:28:42,280
you guys being a party that works together?

722
00:28:42,780 --> 00:28:44,640
I definitely see the analogy,

723
00:28:44,670 --> 00:28:47,820
but I don't think the three of us,

724
00:28:47,900 --> 00:28:49,160
with the three of us all

725
00:28:49,190 --> 00:28:52,280
together have played d and daughter, like,

726
00:28:52,410 --> 00:28:54,290
with all three of us once,

727
00:28:55,350 --> 00:28:58,810
so we're not used to actually gaming

728
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:02,460
together at the table. So, yeah, I don't know.

729
00:29:02,490 --> 00:29:04,130
I don't think we even knew how well

730
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:05,750
we would work together in the beginning.

731
00:29:05,790 --> 00:29:07,340
It just happened to be that way.

732
00:29:07,450 --> 00:29:09,220
We're very similar in certain ways,

733
00:29:09,290 --> 00:29:11,440
very detail oriented and, yeah,

734
00:29:11,450 --> 00:29:12,180
I don't know, it just worked.

735
00:29:12,210 --> 00:29:14,060
And that overlap like we were talking

736
00:29:14,090 --> 00:29:17,010
about earlier just worked out very well.

737
00:29:17,820 --> 00:29:20,300
Yeah, the communication is, like, super easy.

738
00:29:20,420 --> 00:29:22,390
I feel like we communicate in similar

739
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,020
ways where I hear all the time about

740
00:29:25,060 --> 00:29:27,630
meetings being a waste of time or anything.

741
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:28,930
When we have meetings,

742
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:30,010
at the end of it,

743
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:31,840
I always feel super energized

744
00:29:31,950 --> 00:29:35,040
and excited about what we're doing.

745
00:29:35,190 --> 00:29:36,730
I feel like we got a lot done.

746
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:38,670
I feel like we made a lot of decisions.

747
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,680
So when we have our four hour meetings,

748
00:29:41,830 --> 00:29:43,320
whether a business or development,

749
00:29:43,410 --> 00:29:45,230
those are my favorite things.

750
00:29:45,420 --> 00:29:48,150
So I always look forward to those. Our

751
00:29:49,410 --> 00:29:51,590
development meetings are fun,

752
00:29:51,660 --> 00:29:53,710
even when I'm just kind of taking a backseat

753
00:29:53,740 --> 00:29:55,550
to listening to these guys talk about

754
00:29:55,620 --> 00:29:57,550
how they're going to execute on features.

755
00:29:59,250 --> 00:30:00,440
Can you tell us a little bit about

756
00:30:00,470 --> 00:30:02,160
the structure of those types of meetings?

757
00:30:02,230 --> 00:30:03,030
How is that run?

758
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:04,790
Just to give us a peek behind the

759
00:30:04,820 --> 00:30:07,050
curtain of what seems to be working.

760
00:30:07,130 --> 00:30:08,930
Is there a structure or is it just

761
00:30:08,970 --> 00:30:10,870
personalities that are gelling together?

762
00:30:11,630 --> 00:30:13,690
It depends on the meeting. Jason,

763
00:30:13,740 --> 00:30:16,450
do you want to give a background on, I guess,

764
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:19,010
how you run the software dev stuff?

765
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,120
Sure. Yeah. So there's

766
00:30:21,170 --> 00:30:23,170
this methodology called agile,

767
00:30:23,990 --> 00:30:25,860
and there are certain ceremonies that you're

768
00:30:25,890 --> 00:30:27,770
supposed to do as part of that process.

769
00:30:28,350 --> 00:30:30,550
So something like backlog grooming,

770
00:30:30,590 --> 00:30:31,880
which is essentially going through a

771
00:30:31,890 --> 00:30:34,640
bunch of items and adding details to it,

772
00:30:34,650 --> 00:30:35,340
what needs to be done,

773
00:30:35,370 --> 00:30:38,020
what's the acceptance criteria, and then, like,

774
00:30:38,050 --> 00:30:39,340
assigning priority,

775
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,100
how much effort it's going to take.

776
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:44,080
And then that kind of complements

777
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:45,940
another ceremony called sprint planning,

778
00:30:46,070 --> 00:30:47,820
where you actually set the

779
00:30:47,850 --> 00:30:50,700
direction for the next two weeks, let's say,

780
00:30:50,830 --> 00:30:53,510
and then you pull in work from the

781
00:30:53,540 --> 00:30:56,460
backlog and assign it to different people.

782
00:30:57,640 --> 00:30:58,690
So that's something

783
00:30:58,740 --> 00:31:00,430
we're trying to be better at now, like

784
00:31:00,460 --> 00:31:03,220
adding a little more structure and processes.

785
00:31:05,090 --> 00:31:05,830
But I think it's

786
00:31:05,860 --> 00:31:07,070
also something we're trying to balance.

787
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:08,020
Like we don't want to add

788
00:31:08,070 --> 00:31:10,100
too much process and waste time.

789
00:31:10,150 --> 00:31:12,560
So we're kind of slowly,

790
00:31:12,710 --> 00:31:14,110
incrementally adding

791
00:31:15,730 --> 00:31:18,150
those types of meetings on the technology side.

792
00:31:18,690 --> 00:31:20,520
But we do have a lot of other business

793
00:31:20,630 --> 00:31:22,350
strategy type of meetings as well.

794
00:31:24,010 --> 00:31:27,160
Yeah, I think like Jason described,

795
00:31:27,270 --> 00:31:29,350
those are pretty analytical, right.

796
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:32,280
We meet and it's within

797
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:35,160
two minutes or in the details, right.

798
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,540
Like it's really focused on being efficient,

799
00:31:37,590 --> 00:31:38,740
figuring out what the best

800
00:31:38,770 --> 00:31:41,700
course of action is on a small scale.

801
00:31:41,870 --> 00:31:44,180
For the larger strategy discussions,

802
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,460
it's generally a little bit more freeform,

803
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:49,300
with some exceptions.

804
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:54,330
So usually I like to lead them in a

805
00:31:54,340 --> 00:31:57,280
way where there's a specific topic

806
00:31:57,350 --> 00:32:01,890
that's being addressed and just, you know,

807
00:32:01,930 --> 00:32:03,870
usually like to hear all three of our

808
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,510
viewpoints because I do feel like we're.

809
00:32:07,290 --> 00:32:09,630
It's like a workshopping an idea, right.

810
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:11,590
And as we go around and kind of list our

811
00:32:11,620 --> 00:32:15,040
concerns with a concept or our thoughts

812
00:32:15,070 --> 00:32:17,540
on it or potentially pitch an alternative

813
00:32:17,630 --> 00:32:19,390
for whatever we're trying to decide.

814
00:32:20,730 --> 00:32:22,170
So I'll give an example

815
00:32:22,210 --> 00:32:24,720
because that's probably more useful.

816
00:32:25,740 --> 00:32:27,440
We get a lot of community,

817
00:32:28,660 --> 00:32:30,960
a lot of the community asking us, oh,

818
00:32:30,990 --> 00:32:32,960
will you integrate with foundry?

819
00:32:34,340 --> 00:32:35,920
Will you integrate with other virtual

820
00:32:35,970 --> 00:32:39,000
tabletop games like I play on this site?

821
00:32:40,620 --> 00:32:42,560
Could you build an integration for that?

822
00:32:42,670 --> 00:32:43,660
And that was something

823
00:32:43,700 --> 00:32:45,730
that we were trying to figure out. Okay,

824
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:48,550
how are we going to fit this into our roadmap?

825
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:50,440
We've already got all this other stuff,

826
00:32:50,590 --> 00:32:52,870
and we had a long meeting a

827
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,800
few months ago and just went around,

828
00:32:55,910 --> 00:32:57,160
listed our concerns and

829
00:32:57,210 --> 00:33:00,260
just came to the decision of, right now,

830
00:33:00,300 --> 00:33:01,980
we don't have the resources for this,

831
00:33:02,100 --> 00:33:03,040
and it will detract

832
00:33:03,130 --> 00:33:05,210
from our core offering right now,

833
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:07,920
which is our in person gaming experience.

834
00:33:08,460 --> 00:33:10,220
This is not something

835
00:33:10,300 --> 00:33:13,970
we want to detract from right now. And

836
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:17,710
that came about just through us kind of saying,

837
00:33:17,780 --> 00:33:19,550
what's our capacity right now?

838
00:33:20,130 --> 00:33:22,890
How realistic are we being about our timelines?

839
00:33:23,050 --> 00:33:26,820
Let's look back at our history.

840
00:33:26,910 --> 00:33:29,760
Have we been delivering on our items according

841
00:33:29,830 --> 00:33:32,230
to the schedule we've been hoping to,

842
00:33:33,090 --> 00:33:35,760
and just came to the decision as a team

843
00:33:35,950 --> 00:33:38,910
after a pretty free form discussion that

844
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:42,110
we were going to at least wait for that.

845
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:45,890
I've started in this new year,

846
00:33:45,940 --> 00:33:47,550
start taking a bunch

847
00:33:47,580 --> 00:33:50,990
of ideas from the book, working backwards,

848
00:33:51,180 --> 00:33:52,780
which I highly recommend.

849
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:57,260
It's about corporate practices at

850
00:33:57,290 --> 00:33:59,910
Amazon and it's definitely one of

851
00:33:59,940 --> 00:34:02,080
the best business books I've ever read.

852
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:03,950
There's some I'll read and I'll feel like, oh,

853
00:34:03,980 --> 00:34:04,550
maybe I got like

854
00:34:04,580 --> 00:34:06,710
two takeaways every page in this.

855
00:34:06,740 --> 00:34:08,260
I was stopping and

856
00:34:08,290 --> 00:34:11,440
writing notes of practical takeaways.

857
00:34:11,610 --> 00:34:14,040
So I kind of grabbed the

858
00:34:14,090 --> 00:34:18,989
idea of project proposals where Amazon,

859
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:20,510
they banned PowerPoints,

860
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:22,219
so basically

861
00:34:22,340 --> 00:34:24,969
they present projects and narratives,

862
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:27,409
a six page narrative form.

863
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:30,510
And I tried that with

864
00:34:30,679 --> 00:34:32,870
one of our awesome new employees, Nick,

865
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:34,239
who's working on customer support.

866
00:34:34,290 --> 00:34:35,639
And we worked together on a project

867
00:34:35,710 --> 00:34:38,850
proposal for basically an overhaul for

868
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:41,949
our entire customer support infrastructure,

869
00:34:42,030 --> 00:34:43,250
like how we answer emails,

870
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:44,429
what our standards are, what

871
00:34:44,469 --> 00:34:47,800
the resources are that anybody can reference,

872
00:34:49,420 --> 00:34:51,639
how people can be aware of what the status

873
00:34:51,670 --> 00:34:54,020
of bug fixes is and everything like that.

874
00:34:54,179 --> 00:34:56,620
We spent a few days writing

875
00:34:56,659 --> 00:34:58,980
up this six page narrative document,

876
00:34:59,020 --> 00:35:00,280
making it really good,

877
00:35:00,430 --> 00:35:01,920
and then came to

878
00:35:03,350 --> 00:35:06,250
Jason and basically just presented it,

879
00:35:06,550 --> 00:35:07,400
just sat there,

880
00:35:07,450 --> 00:35:09,610
read it through for 20 minutes,

881
00:35:09,720 --> 00:35:10,850
made some notes,

882
00:35:11,020 --> 00:35:12,440
made some alterations,

883
00:35:12,490 --> 00:35:15,010
and then just greenlit it. So

884
00:35:16,750 --> 00:35:18,640
this is something that I've always been

885
00:35:18,730 --> 00:35:21,600
really curious about and passionate about,

886
00:35:21,770 --> 00:35:25,540
is what the best way different

887
00:35:25,650 --> 00:35:27,810
pieces of information are presented,

888
00:35:29,130 --> 00:35:30,580
because there's a lot of things to consider.

889
00:35:30,670 --> 00:35:33,690
People read faster than they speak, people

890
00:35:33,770 --> 00:35:37,450
speak faster than they type, people text,

891
00:35:37,570 --> 00:35:39,710
like with what implement

892
00:35:39,780 --> 00:35:42,580
you're typing on changes the speed.

893
00:35:42,750 --> 00:35:45,130
These all alter how fast we can communicate.

894
00:35:45,170 --> 00:35:47,390
And certain ideas are

895
00:35:47,420 --> 00:35:49,840
better communicated in written format.

896
00:35:49,910 --> 00:35:52,430
Sometimes if I was going to try to

897
00:35:53,820 --> 00:35:55,800
convey something to a large number of people,

898
00:35:55,870 --> 00:35:59,440
maybe I would want to spend 200 hours

899
00:35:59,530 --> 00:36:02,840
writing the best thing I possibly could, right.

900
00:36:03,500 --> 00:36:05,880
And because that actually will make

901
00:36:05,910 --> 00:36:08,160
it better and save everybody else

902
00:36:08,210 --> 00:36:10,180
time from having to read an extra page.

903
00:36:10,220 --> 00:36:11,560
So it's about scale,

904
00:36:12,660 --> 00:36:16,040
it's about considering how the

905
00:36:16,070 --> 00:36:18,010
audience will best digest the information.

906
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:20,350
So I always try to keep that in mind.

907
00:36:20,540 --> 00:36:23,720
That ties back into our app design, too.

908
00:36:23,790 --> 00:36:25,730
How are we best going to present the

909
00:36:25,770 --> 00:36:28,120
information to the user so that

910
00:36:28,150 --> 00:36:29,840
they can immediately know what's happening?

911
00:36:29,910 --> 00:36:33,270
That's why we've had symbols with

912
00:36:36,170 --> 00:36:37,710
sound icons.

913
00:36:38,090 --> 00:36:39,980
We want people to be able to just look down,

914
00:36:40,070 --> 00:36:41,630
instantly recognize something visually,

915
00:36:41,700 --> 00:36:42,620
not have to read.

916
00:36:42,710 --> 00:36:45,120
If we had a text based app,

917
00:36:45,150 --> 00:36:47,020
it would be much less usable.

918
00:36:47,170 --> 00:36:49,220
So maybe that was rambling, but yeah.

919
00:36:49,290 --> 00:36:51,900
Anyway, that makes a lot of sense.

920
00:36:52,240 --> 00:36:53,620
And I applaud also,

921
00:36:53,750 --> 00:36:56,170
one of the things you said there where you say,

922
00:36:56,220 --> 00:36:57,150
turn down some

923
00:36:57,180 --> 00:37:00,590
of the stuff that people, not forever,

924
00:37:00,660 --> 00:37:02,780
but right now people were saying, oh,

925
00:37:02,810 --> 00:37:04,030
why aren't you on foundry? Or can

926
00:37:04,060 --> 00:37:06,650
you make something for this integration, right.

927
00:37:06,780 --> 00:37:10,740
And understanding who you're serving is really

928
00:37:10,810 --> 00:37:12,470
important when you're new in business. Right.

929
00:37:12,540 --> 00:37:14,110
And knowing who is your market.

930
00:37:14,180 --> 00:37:15,860
And I love one that you're promoting.

931
00:37:15,890 --> 00:37:17,560
People get together into in person

932
00:37:17,630 --> 00:37:19,540
D and D because as much as I

933
00:37:19,550 --> 00:37:22,280
think in person's d and D is like one,

934
00:37:22,310 --> 00:37:23,640
it is having a resurgence because

935
00:37:23,670 --> 00:37:25,610
we got out of the COVID times,

936
00:37:25,690 --> 00:37:27,980
but also I think it's really where

937
00:37:28,030 --> 00:37:30,320
people fall in love with the game.

938
00:37:30,390 --> 00:37:30,990
You know,

939
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:32,350
it is one of those things

940
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:34,010
that I've had people who have

941
00:37:34,050 --> 00:37:35,870
started just on the digital side of it,

942
00:37:35,900 --> 00:37:38,670
and it's hard to maintain their excitement

943
00:37:38,740 --> 00:37:40,730
in the same way as when you have that

944
00:37:40,770 --> 00:37:42,730
consistent group of friends getting together in

945
00:37:42,770 --> 00:37:45,990
person and you're app is selling convenience.

946
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:47,290
So that convenience,

947
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:49,080
that ability to just show

948
00:37:49,130 --> 00:37:51,320
up and not have to have planned,

949
00:37:51,780 --> 00:37:54,630
spend an hour or two going through YouTube

950
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:57,760
or Spotify or whatever looking for great music,

951
00:37:57,850 --> 00:38:00,880
you can just go and show up and finish your

952
00:38:00,910 --> 00:38:04,000
day and go right into the game and be able

953
00:38:04,070 --> 00:38:07,360
to provide the atmospheres at an easy level.

954
00:38:08,140 --> 00:38:09,730
And there's people that I just think

955
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:10,960
that saying no to that kind of stuff.

956
00:38:10,990 --> 00:38:12,700
And so you can be great in this one area.

957
00:38:12,740 --> 00:38:15,820
That's a really a wise and smart thing to do,

958
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:19,420
especially at this stage of the company. So

959
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:23,440
I guess you mentioned earlier that

960
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:25,110
you transitioned from being mainly

961
00:38:25,140 --> 00:38:27,780
a composer to then being like the CEO.

962
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:31,060
And I'm sure all of you have had to

963
00:38:31,090 --> 00:38:34,110
probably expand yourselves and read

964
00:38:34,220 --> 00:38:36,170
more business books or watch more business

965
00:38:36,220 --> 00:38:38,390
youtubes or listen to be able to kind

966
00:38:38,420 --> 00:38:40,350
of step into these bigger and grand roles,

967
00:38:40,380 --> 00:38:41,860
because you all do multiple things.

968
00:38:42,460 --> 00:38:45,270
So maybe we can take a second if each of you

969
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:47,720
could share some of the lessons you've learned,

970
00:38:47,850 --> 00:38:50,080
or maybe a lesson that's been really

971
00:38:50,210 --> 00:38:52,720
crucial that serves you now in the role

972
00:38:52,750 --> 00:38:56,320
that you're at and how you learned that

973
00:38:56,370 --> 00:38:59,880
lesson as you were coming into your role.

974
00:39:01,980 --> 00:39:03,000
Yeah, that's a good question.

975
00:39:03,070 --> 00:39:06,260
Sure, I can start. So, yeah, I often

976
00:39:06,300 --> 00:39:08,680
fall victim to chasing perfection.

977
00:39:08,790 --> 00:39:11,240
And oftentimes I think it slows me down.

978
00:39:11,750 --> 00:39:14,890
And especially early on in a company like this,

979
00:39:15,310 --> 00:39:16,720
I've learned it's really important

980
00:39:16,770 --> 00:39:17,890
to just launch and iterate

981
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:21,720
quickly and learn from your users.

982
00:39:21,890 --> 00:39:24,330
Establish that feedback loop early on,

983
00:39:25,310 --> 00:39:27,100
because oftentimes you're not

984
00:39:27,130 --> 00:39:28,460
going to know what the perfect

985
00:39:28,570 --> 00:39:30,650
implementation of some feature is.

986
00:39:32,710 --> 00:39:34,140
It's just important, I think,

987
00:39:34,170 --> 00:39:36,250
to just get the product and features out

988
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:38,380
there and then learn and then keep, you know,

989
00:39:38,410 --> 00:39:40,260
evolving as you go.

990
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:41,830
Would you say

991
00:39:41,860 --> 00:39:46,530
it's almost like a fire, ready, fire,

992
00:39:46,620 --> 00:39:48,760
aim strategy as opposed to a ready, aim,

993
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:51,560
fire strategy because you kind of aim after

994
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:53,730
you figure out what people like or don't like?

995
00:39:53,780 --> 00:39:55,860
Yeah, yeah, that's a good way to put it.

996
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:56,970
That's a good one.

997
00:39:56,980 --> 00:39:57,800
I'm going to write that down.

998
00:39:57,840 --> 00:39:59,360
We got a few good ones on this show.

999
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:01,500
When you're starting off with something,

1000
00:40:01,690 --> 00:40:05,240
you want to say yes to a lot, right? Like,

1001
00:40:05,310 --> 00:40:07,720
you want as many opportunities to test,

1002
00:40:07,890 --> 00:40:10,200
to get as much data as possible,

1003
00:40:10,660 --> 00:40:11,850
but at some point,

1004
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:14,420
you need to start saying no a bit,

1005
00:40:14,580 --> 00:40:15,650
and at some point,

1006
00:40:15,720 --> 00:40:17,920
you need to start saying no to most things,

1007
00:40:18,070 --> 00:40:19,360
and then at some point,

1008
00:40:19,390 --> 00:40:20,440
you need to start saying no to

1009
00:40:20,470 --> 00:40:22,200
everything unless you have

1010
00:40:22,230 --> 00:40:24,840
a really good justification for it. Again,

1011
00:40:24,890 --> 00:40:26,480
that's when you have something that's working.

1012
00:40:26,570 --> 00:40:29,240
And to use your example, ready, fire, aim.

1013
00:40:29,290 --> 00:40:30,690
When you're aiming right,

1014
00:40:30,720 --> 00:40:33,620
and you've got it aimed,

1015
00:40:33,780 --> 00:40:35,900
the sites are aimed well, right.

1016
00:40:36,020 --> 00:40:37,080
It calibrated.

1017
00:40:37,130 --> 00:40:40,930
You're not looking for anything else,

1018
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:42,360
because at that point,

1019
00:40:43,260 --> 00:40:47,270
anything else is a totally new venture. Right.

1020
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:49,510
We can't get, I guess,

1021
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:52,560
overconfident or expect that something

1022
00:40:52,630 --> 00:40:57,240
else we could do would pan out as well as,

1023
00:40:57,970 --> 00:40:59,120
as what

1024
00:40:59,150 --> 00:41:02,070
we've currently got going. So, yeah. Saying no,

1025
00:41:02,650 --> 00:41:04,080
because like I was saying earlier,

1026
00:41:04,150 --> 00:41:06,020
we're all pretty optimistic people.

1027
00:41:06,070 --> 00:41:07,670
I get excited about stuff.

1028
00:41:07,780 --> 00:41:10,470
People present ideas. I'm like, oh, that's,

1029
00:41:10,500 --> 00:41:11,110
that's really neat.

1030
00:41:11,140 --> 00:41:11,890
That'd be a lot of fun.

1031
00:41:11,930 --> 00:41:13,950
But it's my natural inclination

1032
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:16,130
to say yes to everything, and I just,

1033
00:41:16,210 --> 00:41:18,110
we can't do that anymore.

1034
00:41:19,210 --> 00:41:21,140
I absolutely resonate.

1035
00:41:21,310 --> 00:41:23,290
I just wanted to throw out there

1036
00:41:23,330 --> 00:41:25,390
a little thing that I've learned with Chris,

1037
00:41:25,510 --> 00:41:26,410
and it's something,

1038
00:41:26,460 --> 00:41:28,070
it's a lesson I've learned over

1039
00:41:28,140 --> 00:41:29,980
my entire lifetime working with people.

1040
00:41:30,030 --> 00:41:30,900
But with Chris,

1041
00:41:31,030 --> 00:41:33,580
I feel like the opportunity helped

1042
00:41:33,650 --> 00:41:36,620
me really get good at it, so, you know,

1043
00:41:36,670 --> 00:41:38,940
because Chris is very much an ideas guy,

1044
00:41:38,990 --> 00:41:40,380
and he gets really passionate

1045
00:41:40,410 --> 00:41:42,070
about the cool ideas he comes up with.

1046
00:41:42,140 --> 00:41:45,870
I feel like in any startup or any new venture,

1047
00:41:45,940 --> 00:41:47,820
there's got to be somebody like that

1048
00:41:47,870 --> 00:41:50,550
because it fuels so much of

1049
00:41:50,580 --> 00:41:53,150
your direction and it creates

1050
00:41:53,180 --> 00:41:56,020
these new ideas that I'm like, oh, yeah,

1051
00:41:56,050 --> 00:41:56,740
that would be cool.

1052
00:41:56,790 --> 00:41:58,870
But I'm also the structure guy.

1053
00:41:59,020 --> 00:42:00,820
I am the logistics guy.

1054
00:42:00,910 --> 00:42:02,580
And so when Chris says, hey,

1055
00:42:02,610 --> 00:42:03,740
we should do this thing,

1056
00:42:03,810 --> 00:42:07,190
I immediately just go, oh, shit. Oh, my God,

1057
00:42:07,260 --> 00:42:08,260
how am I going to find,

1058
00:42:08,370 --> 00:42:10,100
where are we going to? I don't even,

1059
00:42:10,190 --> 00:42:11,250
I know how we could do that,

1060
00:42:11,260 --> 00:42:12,090
but that would take to,

1061
00:42:12,180 --> 00:42:13,530
how are we going to wow.

1062
00:42:13,660 --> 00:42:15,620
And so that's where my brain goes.

1063
00:42:15,750 --> 00:42:17,220
But I've learned that,

1064
00:42:17,270 --> 00:42:20,150
you know what, it's okay. I tell myself,

1065
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:22,180
Chris had another really good idea.

1066
00:42:22,230 --> 00:42:23,660
I'm going to write that down.

1067
00:42:23,830 --> 00:42:25,720
If he brings it up a second time,

1068
00:42:25,870 --> 00:42:27,070
I'll write it down again,

1069
00:42:27,240 --> 00:42:28,670
and then I'll know, like, okay,

1070
00:42:28,700 --> 00:42:30,590
he's really thinking about this.

1071
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:32,830
You know, it's. It's. For me,

1072
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:34,720
I couldn't get

1073
00:42:34,750 --> 00:42:38,430
to the saying no as much more of, for me,

1074
00:42:38,460 --> 00:42:41,840
it's the say yes, write it down,

1075
00:42:41,990 --> 00:42:45,250
come back to it when I can. But it's totally.

1076
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:47,550
It's similar but different from, like,

1077
00:42:47,590 --> 00:42:48,740
when you have customers, like,

1078
00:42:48,770 --> 00:42:49,700
you're talking about, you know,

1079
00:42:49,730 --> 00:42:52,290
they want to see you on foundry. Like,

1080
00:42:52,710 --> 00:42:54,850
that comes down to your laser focus.

1081
00:42:55,270 --> 00:42:57,530
You guys have been on the market for, you said,

1082
00:42:57,580 --> 00:42:58,810
a couple years now,

1083
00:42:58,940 --> 00:43:01,690
so you kind of understand there's.

1084
00:43:01,720 --> 00:43:04,600
There's proof of success in your product,

1085
00:43:04,770 --> 00:43:06,480
so you're not as worried about that.

1086
00:43:06,530 --> 00:43:06,930
You've.

1087
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:08,230
You've gotten a good

1088
00:43:08,270 --> 00:43:10,350
idea of who your audience is. You know,

1089
00:43:10,470 --> 00:43:12,370
what their pain points are. I'm.

1090
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:14,730
I assume a bit on that one. And, you know,

1091
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:15,470
their pain points.

1092
00:43:15,510 --> 00:43:17,790
So you can create features

1093
00:43:17,830 --> 00:43:21,570
and products that cater to those. And that's.

1094
00:43:21,870 --> 00:43:24,990
That is an interesting distinction. Like,

1095
00:43:25,030 --> 00:43:28,660
that's a couple steps up from many of the other

1096
00:43:28,690 --> 00:43:31,340
people we talk to that are still, in some ways,

1097
00:43:31,410 --> 00:43:32,190
figuring it out.

1098
00:43:32,230 --> 00:43:34,220
And many of our listeners are still trying

1099
00:43:34,250 --> 00:43:37,060
to figure out who is my audience, you know,

1100
00:43:37,090 --> 00:43:39,790
what are their pain points? And eventually,

1101
00:43:39,940 --> 00:43:41,820
they'll be able to get that laser focus,

1102
00:43:41,910 --> 00:43:42,480
I will hope.

1103
00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:43,980
And with what you're talking about,

1104
00:43:44,010 --> 00:43:45,580
they'll at least think about it.

1105
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:48,040
So very cool.

1106
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:50,710
I didn't want to miss Chase, though,

1107
00:43:50,900 --> 00:43:52,580
on the lesson for yourself.

1108
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:56,340
Yeah, I had three small ones, if that's cool.

1109
00:43:56,470 --> 00:43:57,660
I wrote it down so that I'd be

1110
00:43:57,670 --> 00:43:59,250
able to focus and listen and not

1111
00:43:59,260 --> 00:44:03,420
just be thinking about my answer. And actually,

1112
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:07,480
these all kind of come from other people.

1113
00:44:07,650 --> 00:44:08,930
None of this is lessons that

1114
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:11,560
I learned by figuring it out myself.

1115
00:44:11,860 --> 00:44:13,290
The first one is actually something that

1116
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:16,960
Jason said months and months ago about.

1117
00:44:17,740 --> 00:44:19,050
I think it was even just, like,

1118
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:20,280
an off the cuff, like,

1119
00:44:20,390 --> 00:44:21,980
we should kind of act like this.

1120
00:44:22,140 --> 00:44:24,640
And I took that, and just, like,

1121
00:44:24,710 --> 00:44:26,160
it started cycling in my mind,

1122
00:44:26,190 --> 00:44:27,600
and I was like, oh, no, no, no.

1123
00:44:27,670 --> 00:44:30,200
We need to take this to 110%,

1124
00:44:30,310 --> 00:44:32,690
which is limit work in progress.

1125
00:44:32,890 --> 00:44:36,380
If you have 18 irons in the fire, none

1126
00:44:36,390 --> 00:44:38,280
of them are getting the attention they deserve.

1127
00:44:38,390 --> 00:44:39,680
And so I don't even

1128
00:44:39,710 --> 00:44:40,870
remember what we were working on,

1129
00:44:40,900 --> 00:44:42,740
but Jason was like, we

1130
00:44:42,750 --> 00:44:45,170
should try to limit our works in progress here.

1131
00:44:45,290 --> 00:44:47,740
And I went, oh, yeah, that's right. And

1132
00:44:47,750 --> 00:44:51,420
so now we have a million things we want to do,

1133
00:44:51,510 --> 00:44:53,620
and it's so tempting to take

1134
00:44:53,670 --> 00:44:55,530
step one or step one and two

1135
00:44:55,650 --> 00:44:59,390
on 18 of those all at once. But like, nope,

1136
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:01,320
we're actually going to be serving the company

1137
00:45:01,390 --> 00:45:03,470
and the product and the business better

1138
00:45:03,620 --> 00:45:05,670
by finishing what we're currently working

1139
00:45:05,720 --> 00:45:08,000
on now and putting that attention here.

1140
00:45:08,110 --> 00:45:10,710
And I'll still be excited about the next thing.

1141
00:45:10,860 --> 00:45:11,860
Two weeks from now,

1142
00:45:11,910 --> 00:45:12,960
two months from now,

1143
00:45:13,070 --> 00:45:14,230
we'll get to it.

1144
00:45:16,010 --> 00:45:17,310
That's the first one.

1145
00:45:17,930 --> 00:45:19,800
The second one is also kind

1146
00:45:19,830 --> 00:45:21,030
of something that's been said here

1147
00:45:21,060 --> 00:45:23,730
before or said in this conversation,

1148
00:45:23,900 --> 00:45:26,210
which is that the

1149
00:45:26,260 --> 00:45:28,370
fact that we have a team of three, I think

1150
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:30,740
is actually something extra, extra special.

1151
00:45:30,890 --> 00:45:33,560
When you have one person, every single idea,

1152
00:45:33,610 --> 00:45:35,090
you just bounce around with yourself.

1153
00:45:35,140 --> 00:45:36,330
Maybe you have people you can trust,

1154
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:37,150
that you can talk to,

1155
00:45:37,190 --> 00:45:41,220
but ultimately it's you and only you. And I,

1156
00:45:41,330 --> 00:45:42,810
frankly think that's a problem.

1157
00:45:43,350 --> 00:45:45,250
Adding in a second person is great

1158
00:45:45,300 --> 00:45:47,100
because all of a sudden you have a mirror.

1159
00:45:47,170 --> 00:45:50,020
You can actually genuinely get somebody

1160
00:45:50,050 --> 00:45:51,740
else's perspective from somebody who has

1161
00:45:51,770 --> 00:45:55,600
skin in the game. And that's, that's, you know,

1162
00:45:55,720 --> 00:45:58,020
you're 100% better than you were before.

1163
00:45:58,170 --> 00:46:00,900
But I think having a third person in the mix

1164
00:46:01,070 --> 00:46:04,180
actually provides an extra mirror where

1165
00:46:04,310 --> 00:46:06,620
there might be times where Alex and I will talk

1166
00:46:06,650 --> 00:46:08,320
about something and we'll get caught up in,

1167
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:09,980
in a perspective that we happen

1168
00:46:10,010 --> 00:46:11,850
to share and Jason will come in

1169
00:46:11,940 --> 00:46:13,650
and we'll kind of shatter the

1170
00:46:13,660 --> 00:46:15,900
illusion and go, you know, hey, wait a minute.

1171
00:46:15,930 --> 00:46:16,980
Think about it this way.

1172
00:46:17,070 --> 00:46:20,500
And we both go, oh, that's right. And I think.

1173
00:46:20,670 --> 00:46:22,600
I think three is kind of a magic

1174
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:24,700
number for being able to do that. So that's,

1175
00:46:24,770 --> 00:46:26,460
that's the second lesson.

1176
00:46:26,570 --> 00:46:28,020
And then the last thing

1177
00:46:28,170 --> 00:46:30,920
is kind of a two parter.

1178
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:33,860
The first part is always do your best,

1179
00:46:33,950 --> 00:46:35,310
which seems obvious,

1180
00:46:35,500 --> 00:46:38,320
but the second part is the important part,

1181
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:41,000
which is do your best to

1182
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:43,020
communicate that you're doing your best.

1183
00:46:43,770 --> 00:46:45,150
When we first started

1184
00:46:45,220 --> 00:46:46,490
putting our product out there,

1185
00:46:46,530 --> 00:46:49,240
and there have always been bugs

1186
00:46:49,270 --> 00:46:51,160
that we want to fix or things like that.

1187
00:46:51,310 --> 00:46:51,870
In the beginning,

1188
00:46:51,900 --> 00:46:53,360
there were a whole bunch of bugs and

1189
00:46:53,430 --> 00:46:56,140
we would get a lot of feedback. And for me,

1190
00:46:56,310 --> 00:46:58,910
just the way my personality works,

1191
00:46:59,020 --> 00:47:01,220
that feedback always would hit me really hard.

1192
00:47:01,270 --> 00:47:03,590
I could read 205 star reviews,

1193
00:47:03,620 --> 00:47:04,490
but then I see the one,

1194
00:47:04,530 --> 00:47:05,550
one star review that

1195
00:47:05,580 --> 00:47:07,250
points out something that I'm like,

1196
00:47:07,410 --> 00:47:08,820
we've known about that for three

1197
00:47:08,870 --> 00:47:10,380
weeks and we still haven't fixed it,

1198
00:47:10,390 --> 00:47:11,810
or we've known about that for six months,

1199
00:47:11,850 --> 00:47:13,620
and we were just kind of hoping

1200
00:47:13,790 --> 00:47:15,630
we could get to it as soon as we can.

1201
00:47:15,750 --> 00:47:16,980
That's the one that digs at

1202
00:47:17,010 --> 00:47:18,660
me and that keeps me up at night.

1203
00:47:18,810 --> 00:47:21,580
And somebody said to me, hey,

1204
00:47:21,730 --> 00:47:23,690
when you see those people,

1205
00:47:24,110 --> 00:47:25,610
or when you have the opportunity

1206
00:47:25,660 --> 00:47:29,170
to talk to people who see that, first of all,

1207
00:47:29,790 --> 00:47:31,240
they're giving you something valuable.

1208
00:47:31,330 --> 00:47:33,130
But the thing that you can do that's actually

1209
00:47:33,180 --> 00:47:36,590
going to help you kind of mentally cope

1210
00:47:36,630 --> 00:47:39,250
with the fact that somebody has noticed a flaw

1211
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:41,790
in what you're creating is communicating

1212
00:47:41,860 --> 00:47:45,400
to them that you are doing your best.

1213
00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:47,030
And that's not always going to

1214
00:47:47,060 --> 00:47:50,220
solve the problem that they're having.

1215
00:47:50,390 --> 00:47:53,940
It's not always going to make them feel better,

1216
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:56,820
but something it is going to do is remind

1217
00:47:56,910 --> 00:47:59,390
you because you're telling somebody else that

1218
00:47:59,420 --> 00:48:01,180
you actually are doing your best and you're

1219
00:48:01,230 --> 00:48:02,810
committing to doing your best on something.

1220
00:48:02,860 --> 00:48:04,420
And so there's this kind of back

1221
00:48:04,470 --> 00:48:06,680
and forth psychological principle to it.

1222
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:08,650
So I've been trying to integrate that

1223
00:48:08,700 --> 00:48:11,320
in anytime I'm communicating people, whether

1224
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:13,760
it's telling them that, like, hey, look,

1225
00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:15,060
I'm a foundry user, too.

1226
00:48:15,130 --> 00:48:16,110
I would love that. But no,

1227
00:48:16,140 --> 00:48:17,540
we can't do that right now,

1228
00:48:17,710 --> 00:48:21,460
or other tech questions or bugs or whatever,

1229
00:48:21,530 --> 00:48:23,960
I always try to make sure that

1230
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:27,140
in my answers I'm coming off as saying, hey,

1231
00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:30,420
we will do our best. Whatever happens,

1232
00:48:30,450 --> 00:48:31,100
I promise you,

1233
00:48:31,130 --> 00:48:32,820
we're doing our best with that. And that

1234
00:48:32,850 --> 00:48:34,730
not only helps with the customer interaction,

1235
00:48:34,820 --> 00:48:37,220
it helps with my own ability to

1236
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:39,930
handle those interactions as well.

1237
00:48:40,020 --> 00:48:41,140
There's another thing

1238
00:48:41,170 --> 00:48:43,110
it does that I really like from,

1239
00:48:43,260 --> 00:48:44,660
I spent a lot of time in

1240
00:48:44,710 --> 00:48:46,740
customer support and customer service.

1241
00:48:46,890 --> 00:48:49,390
And the other thing that does is it

1242
00:48:49,540 --> 00:48:51,740
tells the other person they've been heard,

1243
00:48:52,240 --> 00:48:54,010
which I find a lot of

1244
00:48:54,020 --> 00:48:58,240
the time big companies forget to do. They

1245
00:48:58,270 --> 00:49:00,700
just see it and they say, you know, thank you.

1246
00:49:00,710 --> 00:49:01,850
Your feedback has been noted.

1247
00:49:01,890 --> 00:49:03,720
We'll send this higher up. And, you know,

1248
00:49:03,750 --> 00:49:05,560
it's not going anywhere. Like,

1249
00:49:05,630 --> 00:49:07,060
that was actually one of the things

1250
00:49:07,110 --> 00:49:09,210
I was taught at a company to do.

1251
00:49:09,370 --> 00:49:12,270
And they told us, yeah, it's going somewhere.

1252
00:49:12,380 --> 00:49:14,510
Well, I knew after very quickly, I

1253
00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:16,580
knew it wasn't really getting reviewed.

1254
00:49:16,710 --> 00:49:17,730
And so saying that,

1255
00:49:17,770 --> 00:49:20,130
you know what, that genuine, hey,

1256
00:49:20,170 --> 00:49:21,800
we're doing our best. I mean, for anyone,

1257
00:49:21,870 --> 00:49:24,240
even if someone listening has an Etsy store

1258
00:49:24,350 --> 00:49:26,610
or some other place where they sell product,

1259
00:49:26,660 --> 00:49:28,780
where they get reviews, just saying, hey,

1260
00:49:28,970 --> 00:49:30,400
we appreciate that feedback.

1261
00:49:30,450 --> 00:49:32,530
We are trying our best to address this.

1262
00:49:32,830 --> 00:49:35,810
Your note has not been ignored.

1263
00:49:36,710 --> 00:49:39,130
But I love that the mindset aspect

1264
00:49:39,180 --> 00:49:40,890
isn't something I've really thought about.

1265
00:49:40,980 --> 00:49:43,010
It kind of holds you accountable,

1266
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:45,140
which is another thing that we've

1267
00:49:45,170 --> 00:49:48,570
been talking around is this accountability.

1268
00:49:49,550 --> 00:49:50,660
The magic three

1269
00:49:50,730 --> 00:49:52,310
that you were just talking about, Chase,

1270
00:49:52,350 --> 00:49:53,350
with the three of you,

1271
00:49:53,380 --> 00:49:56,430
there is this accountability for each of you.

1272
00:49:56,500 --> 00:49:59,580
There's the dynamic slicer app,

1273
00:49:59,630 --> 00:50:00,650
or what was it called?

1274
00:50:00,770 --> 00:50:01,910
Slicing pie.

1275
00:50:02,250 --> 00:50:03,180
Slicing pie.

1276
00:50:03,230 --> 00:50:03,960
That one.

1277
00:50:04,070 --> 00:50:06,640
I nailed it. And that is, you know,

1278
00:50:06,670 --> 00:50:08,440
there's accountability in there,

1279
00:50:08,590 --> 00:50:09,750
and everything that you're

1280
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:13,060
doing together has created that. Now, now,

1281
00:50:13,110 --> 00:50:14,830
we've talked a lot about

1282
00:50:15,290 --> 00:50:18,830
the three of you as a team, a cohesive unit,

1283
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:20,910
and we've talked a little bit about the app.

1284
00:50:20,940 --> 00:50:22,370
I'd like to dive a little bit more

1285
00:50:22,410 --> 00:50:26,310
into it as a business model. Specifically,

1286
00:50:26,380 --> 00:50:28,270
I'm just going to go for the jugular and

1287
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:32,310
ask about your money generating product,

1288
00:50:32,420 --> 00:50:33,890
because you have created

1289
00:50:33,930 --> 00:50:37,040
a phenomenal product that is freemium.

1290
00:50:37,230 --> 00:50:38,720
And like I said,

1291
00:50:38,790 --> 00:50:40,150
I've used it for hours.

1292
00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:42,590
I have not been asked to pay anything.

1293
00:50:42,740 --> 00:50:44,710
There's also no ads that I've noticed.

1294
00:50:45,170 --> 00:50:47,830
I appreciate no ads very much.

1295
00:50:48,530 --> 00:50:51,430
So how do you guys make money?

1296
00:50:52,050 --> 00:50:56,160
Yeah, no, no ads. And that's lines, basically,

1297
00:50:56,230 --> 00:50:58,960
we've set out to, from the beginning,

1298
00:50:59,030 --> 00:51:01,370
create a solid

1299
00:51:01,450 --> 00:51:05,030
and comprehensive free experience. Right? Like,

1300
00:51:05,180 --> 00:51:08,890
we're moving towards an age where, like,

1301
00:51:08,970 --> 00:51:11,190
everything is free, I think.

1302
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:13,900
So we're in an interim stage,

1303
00:51:13,980 --> 00:51:16,150
but the expectations.

1304
00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:18,640
People need to be able to try something

1305
00:51:18,710 --> 00:51:21,480
before they want to spend money. And also,

1306
00:51:21,610 --> 00:51:25,710
we don't need everybody to have to pay to.

1307
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:28,410
For us to be able to have this, be a company.

1308
00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:30,540
So we've always wanted to

1309
00:51:30,540 --> 00:51:31,580
have that comprehensive free

1310
00:51:31,620 --> 00:51:33,070
experience so somebody could download it,

1311
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:34,210
and even if they can't afford it,

1312
00:51:34,240 --> 00:51:35,320
they don't want to pay.

1313
00:51:35,490 --> 00:51:37,700
They, like you said, you haven't

1314
00:51:37,710 --> 00:51:39,160
been prompted to pay anything.

1315
00:51:39,230 --> 00:51:40,390
You can use it for your games,

1316
00:51:40,460 --> 00:51:41,390
and that's actually something.

1317
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:42,550
We're even expanding.

1318
00:51:42,580 --> 00:51:45,360
I just finished up a whole bunch of

1319
00:51:45,390 --> 00:51:47,430
new music for the forest scene, which is free,

1320
00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:51,190
so that will be in the app soon.

1321
00:51:51,850 --> 00:51:55,080
And to support that vision of

1322
00:51:55,150 --> 00:51:58,280
having a solid and ever improving

1323
00:51:58,390 --> 00:52:00,830
free version is our subscription.

1324
00:52:02,060 --> 00:52:04,160
There's a lot of reasons that we have this.

1325
00:52:04,250 --> 00:52:06,730
We definitely are aware that subscriptions

1326
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:10,360
are hated by a lot of people. Right.

1327
00:52:11,580 --> 00:52:13,640
It can definitely feel like

1328
00:52:13,710 --> 00:52:16,560
it sucks to not own anything,

1329
00:52:16,980 --> 00:52:18,910
but there's a lot

1330
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:21,620
of reasons why we went that way,

1331
00:52:21,780 --> 00:52:23,960
and I think that it actually.

1332
00:52:24,420 --> 00:52:26,130
It's fundamentally our belief,

1333
00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:28,230
and nothing has changed our minds on this,

1334
00:52:28,240 --> 00:52:30,480
that it actually is in the best interest of the

1335
00:52:30,510 --> 00:52:34,150
consumer when you look long term, which, again,

1336
00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:35,800
I think Chase mentioned,

1337
00:52:36,100 --> 00:52:37,500
our goal is we're thinking

1338
00:52:37,540 --> 00:52:40,080
five years from now or longer.

1339
00:52:40,250 --> 00:52:44,940
So when we think about pocket Bard in 2020,

1340
00:52:45,100 --> 00:52:46,280
what year is it? 2024.

1341
00:52:46,310 --> 00:52:49,480
In 2028 or 2029,

1342
00:52:50,380 --> 00:52:52,540
what will we be able to do with

1343
00:52:52,580 --> 00:52:56,440
this business model is totally

1344
00:52:56,470 --> 00:52:58,670
different than what we would do with, like,

1345
00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:01,360
a one time per pack purchase.

1346
00:53:01,780 --> 00:53:04,360
We could have a lot more money right now

1347
00:53:04,530 --> 00:53:08,220
if we had a one time purchase model, right.

1348
00:53:08,260 --> 00:53:10,110
People are willing to spend. I mean,

1349
00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:12,160
people love D and D, right?

1350
00:53:12,270 --> 00:53:14,190
They are willing to spend on this hobby.

1351
00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:15,800
If they wanted to buy

1352
00:53:17,420 --> 00:53:20,600
a seafaring pack for I don't know what price,

1353
00:53:20,650 --> 00:53:22,250
but a lot of people would,

1354
00:53:22,420 --> 00:53:23,120
and a lot

1355
00:53:23,130 --> 00:53:25,180
of people turn down the subscription, right.

1356
00:53:25,290 --> 00:53:27,880
Because a lot of reasons which we can get into,

1357
00:53:27,930 --> 00:53:30,180
but that really is

1358
00:53:30,210 --> 00:53:32,900
the short term money making thing,

1359
00:53:32,970 --> 00:53:34,320
is the one time purchase.

1360
00:53:34,450 --> 00:53:35,930
But then there's no incentive for

1361
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:38,250
us to focus on what actually matters,

1362
00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:40,570
which is improving the app over time,

1363
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:44,050
as we get better at this,

1364
00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:45,930
as we have more resources.

1365
00:53:46,950 --> 00:53:49,130
So we've opted for this kind of

1366
00:53:49,670 --> 00:53:52,730
freemium model because we can have regular

1367
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:55,090
income to devote to what the product

1368
00:53:55,220 --> 00:53:58,890
actually needs to get better in a year.

1369
00:53:58,940 --> 00:54:00,940
It might not be content, right.

1370
00:54:01,130 --> 00:54:04,900
Maybe 15% of our budget goes towards content,

1371
00:54:05,010 --> 00:54:07,650
and the rest goes to overhauling

1372
00:54:07,720 --> 00:54:09,690
the design of the app and reprogramming

1373
00:54:09,740 --> 00:54:11,050
something from the ground up because

1374
00:54:11,100 --> 00:54:12,500
it's going to speed up everything. It's

1375
00:54:12,530 --> 00:54:16,290
going to allow it to live in a place where.

1376
00:54:16,380 --> 00:54:17,500
Where the consumer lives.

1377
00:54:17,550 --> 00:54:18,280
Maybe it will allow

1378
00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:20,390
for that virtual tabletop integration.

1379
00:54:20,540 --> 00:54:23,250
There's so many aspects of the business

1380
00:54:23,300 --> 00:54:26,540
that are not covered by one time purchases.

1381
00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:29,250
It's basically just produce content

1382
00:54:29,300 --> 00:54:32,700
as fast as you can and sell it,

1383
00:54:32,730 --> 00:54:33,300
and then there's

1384
00:54:33,350 --> 00:54:36,050
no incentive to go back to it. So, again,

1385
00:54:36,100 --> 00:54:38,320
we're focused on the long term app,

1386
00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:42,800
and this is also regular income.

1387
00:54:42,950 --> 00:54:44,730
It's recurring each month,

1388
00:54:44,770 --> 00:54:47,790
so we can better tailor our expenses

1389
00:54:47,900 --> 00:54:51,180
and grow responsibly and not

1390
00:54:51,230 --> 00:54:54,790
just hire a bunch of people, spam our growth,

1391
00:54:55,370 --> 00:54:56,420
make a bunch of money,

1392
00:54:56,470 --> 00:54:57,830
and then just leave.

1393
00:54:57,920 --> 00:55:00,190
Just don't push an update for a year.

1394
00:55:00,650 --> 00:55:04,190
So I want to kind of double down on something.

1395
00:55:06,150 --> 00:55:08,530
Where do you make money?

1396
00:55:09,670 --> 00:55:10,390
So we have.

1397
00:55:10,430 --> 00:55:11,490
Did I miss it?

1398
00:55:12,070 --> 00:55:13,090
Go ahead, Jason.

1399
00:55:13,990 --> 00:55:15,780
It's through the subscription model.

1400
00:55:15,890 --> 00:55:18,190
So, basically, there's, like, you know,

1401
00:55:18,310 --> 00:55:20,050
a set of content that's always free,

1402
00:55:20,140 --> 00:55:20,810
and then there's also

1403
00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:23,390
a subset of content that's premium,

1404
00:55:23,470 --> 00:55:24,130
and you have to be

1405
00:55:24,140 --> 00:55:27,620
a subscriber to access if it's like.

1406
00:55:27,650 --> 00:55:30,080
Netflix before your tabletop game, right,

1407
00:55:30,130 --> 00:55:31,660
which basically means, like, when I.

1408
00:55:31,690 --> 00:55:32,630
When I go in there,

1409
00:55:32,660 --> 00:55:34,790
I saw the option to upgrade to get

1410
00:55:34,820 --> 00:55:37,300
some of these other environments or

1411
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:40,120
types of tabletop rpg,

1412
00:55:40,240 --> 00:55:41,120
which actually liked

1413
00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:42,250
quite a bit because I was like, oh,

1414
00:55:42,260 --> 00:55:43,390
there's plenty here for me to play

1415
00:55:43,420 --> 00:55:44,520
around with and get a sense for

1416
00:55:44,560 --> 00:55:46,960
what the app does and how it works.

1417
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:49,370
And is this even something that's functional?

1418
00:55:49,540 --> 00:55:51,340
And then to actually

1419
00:55:51,430 --> 00:55:54,100
go in there and say, like, oh man, I'm running,

1420
00:55:55,760 --> 00:55:57,180
like you said, seafaring game.

1421
00:55:57,210 --> 00:55:58,060
I think seafaring is free,

1422
00:55:58,090 --> 00:56:00,160
but if I wanted to expand upon a pirate

1423
00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:01,810
thing or something like that and have more,

1424
00:56:01,970 --> 00:56:03,490
maybe there'd be an upgrade

1425
00:56:03,530 --> 00:56:05,430
that I could go into and say, oh,

1426
00:56:05,540 --> 00:56:06,450
I'm going to join premium

1427
00:56:06,490 --> 00:56:08,270
so I can run that for my game.

1428
00:56:08,810 --> 00:56:10,800
And so that's it. I mean,

1429
00:56:10,950 --> 00:56:12,030
I think that's interesting

1430
00:56:12,060 --> 00:56:13,500
because I personally don't mind.

1431
00:56:13,550 --> 00:56:14,510
I know some people are saying

1432
00:56:14,560 --> 00:56:15,850
memberships and subscriptions

1433
00:56:15,890 --> 00:56:17,220
and all that stuff is bad. I'm like,

1434
00:56:17,230 --> 00:56:18,200
I don't mind that stuff.

1435
00:56:18,270 --> 00:56:20,590
If the subscription provides good value,

1436
00:56:20,660 --> 00:56:21,310
there's a lot of

1437
00:56:21,340 --> 00:56:23,680
subscriptions that I'm part of, but

1438
00:56:23,790 --> 00:56:26,350
if I don't get the value out of it regularly,

1439
00:56:27,130 --> 00:56:28,370
then I'm going to leave.

1440
00:56:28,510 --> 00:56:30,090
And I think that there's a lot of

1441
00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:31,700
companies out there that trick

1442
00:56:31,740 --> 00:56:35,220
people into doing their memberships, like, oh,

1443
00:56:35,260 --> 00:56:36,280
you get this.

1444
00:56:36,470 --> 00:56:37,250
That's what I'm worried

1445
00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:38,590
about when I download an app, right?

1446
00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:39,230
Everybody's had

1447
00:56:39,240 --> 00:56:40,620
that experience where it's like, oh,

1448
00:56:40,660 --> 00:56:41,720
you download an app that

1449
00:56:41,770 --> 00:56:43,890
promises some big transformation for you,

1450
00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:45,800
and then you're immediately dinged

1451
00:56:45,830 --> 00:56:47,890
for like a year long subscription to

1452
00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:50,810
it for 70 or 80 or $100 just to even

1453
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:53,160
access or try out this thing that says

1454
00:56:53,190 --> 00:56:54,660
it's going to solve this problem for you,

1455
00:56:54,700 --> 00:56:55,760
and then the thing doesn't really

1456
00:56:55,810 --> 00:56:57,080
work or it's not really delivering,

1457
00:56:57,110 --> 00:56:58,710
or they don't service it or all those things.

1458
00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:00,430
I think that's a really valid concern.

1459
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:02,290
I didn't have that experience with you,

1460
00:57:02,320 --> 00:57:04,020
which is one of the reasons I liked your app.

1461
00:57:04,180 --> 00:57:06,840
So I was like, oh, this is good.

1462
00:57:07,180 --> 00:57:09,500
When we were first kind of considering things,

1463
00:57:09,540 --> 00:57:12,150
there's a story that I had heard, I

1464
00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:14,960
think I heard it on a podcast a long time ago,

1465
00:57:15,500 --> 00:57:19,150
about the kind of business strategy

1466
00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:22,070
of how much do you give in a free trial

1467
00:57:22,120 --> 00:57:24,570
type of thing and how much do you pay? While I.

1468
00:57:24,710 --> 00:57:26,710
And it was called the happy meal mistake.

1469
00:57:26,860 --> 00:57:29,280
And I know this is like a little old school,

1470
00:57:29,350 --> 00:57:32,480
but imagine you're taking somebody

1471
00:57:32,510 --> 00:57:35,070
out on a date for the first time, right?

1472
00:57:35,220 --> 00:57:37,130
They don't know much about you.

1473
00:57:37,170 --> 00:57:38,710
This is like your chance

1474
00:57:39,770 --> 00:57:42,150
to get the other person to decide,

1475
00:57:43,170 --> 00:57:44,350
I'm going to continue.

1476
00:57:44,480 --> 00:57:45,510
We're going to go on dates

1477
00:57:45,580 --> 00:57:47,550
number two and three and four,

1478
00:57:47,890 --> 00:57:49,680
and you show up,

1479
00:57:49,710 --> 00:57:50,970
maybe you're in a nice suit.

1480
00:57:51,020 --> 00:57:51,860
You're gonna pick the

1481
00:57:51,890 --> 00:57:53,710
person up from wherever they live,

1482
00:57:53,870 --> 00:57:54,860
and they say, okay, well,

1483
00:57:54,890 --> 00:57:57,000
where are we going? And you go,

1484
00:57:57,170 --> 00:58:00,340
we're gonna go to McDonald's. Well,

1485
00:58:00,530 --> 00:58:02,500
come on. That's like. That's

1486
00:58:02,530 --> 00:58:05,440
a little silly. And, of course, the person.

1487
00:58:05,490 --> 00:58:06,500
I don't understand, Chase.

1488
00:58:06,570 --> 00:58:06,930
Why.

1489
00:58:07,020 --> 00:58:08,570
Why is that a bad idea?

1490
00:58:10,190 --> 00:58:11,820
Can you elaborate?

1491
00:58:11,970 --> 00:58:12,830
You imagine that

1492
00:58:12,870 --> 00:58:14,850
you give the justification of, like, well,

1493
00:58:14,980 --> 00:58:15,690
it's a lot.

1494
00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:16,270
It's a lot of

1495
00:58:16,310 --> 00:58:18,240
investment to, like, kind of, you know, do

1496
00:58:18,250 --> 00:58:20,960
a more expensive meal. Let's, like, you know,

1497
00:58:20,990 --> 00:58:21,540
let's see if there's.

1498
00:58:21,580 --> 00:58:22,090
I don't know if you're

1499
00:58:22,120 --> 00:58:23,200
that great yet, you know.

1500
00:58:23,230 --> 00:58:23,840
Yeah.

1501
00:58:24,740 --> 00:58:26,640
And it's a silly example,

1502
00:58:26,670 --> 00:58:28,640
but it illustrates.

1503
00:58:28,750 --> 00:58:29,330
And I actually.

1504
00:58:29,400 --> 00:58:31,760
I think it illustrates more for business

1505
00:58:31,870 --> 00:58:34,640
than it actually has wisdom with dating,

1506
00:58:36,060 --> 00:58:38,660
but it illustrates that in a business context,

1507
00:58:38,740 --> 00:58:40,630
when you give kind of the free

1508
00:58:40,680 --> 00:58:42,400
trial or the free version of

1509
00:58:42,450 --> 00:58:45,200
something and you have handicapped it,

1510
00:58:45,310 --> 00:58:46,280
what you're setting people

1511
00:58:46,330 --> 00:58:48,360
up for is a frustrating experience,

1512
00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:50,920
and you're not actually convincing

1513
00:58:51,000 --> 00:58:53,610
people that the premium experience

1514
00:58:53,700 --> 00:58:56,500
is worth paying for a lot of the time.

1515
00:58:56,670 --> 00:58:59,180
I find with a lot of freemium apps that the

1516
00:58:59,210 --> 00:59:02,400
free version is just deeply unsatisfying,

1517
00:59:02,520 --> 00:59:04,540
and it feels like they're relying

1518
00:59:04,610 --> 00:59:06,820
on that dissatisfaction to

1519
00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:10,340
entice you into paying for the rest of it.

1520
00:59:10,430 --> 00:59:12,900
But for the most black hat innovation.

1521
00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:13,900
And at that point,

1522
00:59:13,930 --> 00:59:16,040
why have the free version at all know?

1523
00:59:16,820 --> 00:59:18,110
I just delete the apps that

1524
00:59:18,120 --> 00:59:22,220
when they do that free trial, three days,

1525
00:59:22,260 --> 00:59:24,810
then it's $85 a month. I'm like, what?

1526
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:25,500
Not gonna lie.

1527
00:59:25,540 --> 00:59:26,340
I totally thought

1528
00:59:26,380 --> 00:59:28,240
it would be that way with pocket Bard. I

1529
00:59:28,270 --> 00:59:30,320
totally thought when I saw the ad, I was like,

1530
00:59:30,350 --> 00:59:31,200
too good to be true.

1531
00:59:31,290 --> 00:59:31,960
I'm gonna download

1532
00:59:31,990 --> 00:59:33,660
this and just prove myself right.

1533
00:59:33,780 --> 00:59:35,080
And I was like, crap.

1534
00:59:35,110 --> 00:59:36,920
There's a lot here for us.

1535
00:59:36,950 --> 00:59:38,880
We kind of decided from the beginning,

1536
00:59:39,070 --> 00:59:41,410
and Alex has alluded to this,

1537
00:59:41,440 --> 00:59:43,290
as well already,

1538
00:59:43,440 --> 00:59:44,810
that even if you

1539
00:59:44,840 --> 00:59:46,600
decide not to pay for pocket Bard,

1540
00:59:46,690 --> 00:59:48,520
we still want it to be the best experience

1541
00:59:48,610 --> 00:59:52,610
that you can have for free. That's it.

1542
00:59:52,680 --> 00:59:53,540
That's the goal.

1543
00:59:53,700 --> 00:59:56,080
Well, there's value also within

1544
00:59:56,270 --> 00:59:57,930
of just having a customer base

1545
00:59:57,960 --> 01:00:00,590
that's continually using your app. Right.

1546
01:00:00,720 --> 01:00:03,200
And whether that's them not paying,

1547
01:00:03,250 --> 01:00:04,890
just logging in and

1548
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:07,140
running their weekly d and d game. Right.

1549
01:00:07,270 --> 01:00:09,940
But down the road, you know, if

1550
01:00:09,970 --> 01:00:12,300
I've got a relationship with you of like, oh,

1551
01:00:12,330 --> 01:00:13,980
I've been in pocket Bard

1552
01:00:14,050 --> 01:00:16,670
every week for the last 15 weeks,

1553
01:00:16,740 --> 01:00:20,190
and you just released this, like, you know,

1554
01:00:20,220 --> 01:00:22,140
you just released a new dungeon pack.

1555
01:00:22,170 --> 01:00:24,760
That sounds really cool. And I'm like, oh, man,

1556
01:00:24,800 --> 01:00:26,460
I wanted to do more of a scary dungeon.

1557
01:00:26,490 --> 01:00:27,950
They have this whole scary pack that's

1558
01:00:27,980 --> 01:00:29,630
gonna really make it more horror theme,

1559
01:00:29,660 --> 01:00:30,610
and I want to create

1560
01:00:30,660 --> 01:00:32,240
that atmosphere for these characters.

1561
01:00:32,360 --> 01:00:33,550
I trust you.

1562
01:00:33,720 --> 01:00:35,750
I know you're not trying to screw me over.

1563
01:00:35,820 --> 01:00:37,060
You're not trying to just, like,

1564
01:00:37,150 --> 01:00:39,290
click this button and give me that $80. Like,

1565
01:00:39,330 --> 01:00:41,040
you've actually established a relationship

1566
01:00:41,110 --> 01:00:43,000
with me for that free version,

1567
01:00:43,150 --> 01:00:46,140
and you've shown up and given me what I wanted,

1568
01:00:46,270 --> 01:00:47,750
and now I'm willing to spend a lot

1569
01:00:47,780 --> 01:00:49,340
more money with you down the road

1570
01:00:49,390 --> 01:00:51,270
and your quality of client. Now, this might,

1571
01:00:51,300 --> 01:00:52,180
like you said, might take.

1572
01:00:52,230 --> 01:00:53,950
This might take you a little longer to build,

1573
01:00:54,100 --> 01:00:57,230
but you're building a foundation where once

1574
01:00:57,280 --> 01:00:59,630
I jump into that and I realize, like, oh, man,

1575
01:00:59,660 --> 01:01:00,800
this is awesome,

1576
01:01:01,340 --> 01:01:03,840
you're actually gonna want to.

1577
01:01:03,970 --> 01:01:05,100
I'm actually gonna want to stay,

1578
01:01:05,180 --> 01:01:06,120
and I'm gonna keep paying,

1579
01:01:06,150 --> 01:01:07,110
or I'm gonna actually want

1580
01:01:07,120 --> 01:01:08,470
to know what's the next release?

1581
01:01:08,560 --> 01:01:11,190
And you can always entice me with new great

1582
01:01:11,240 --> 01:01:13,200
stuff because you're continuing to add to the.

1583
01:01:13,330 --> 01:01:15,470
Add to the app, right? Like, you,

1584
01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:16,800
I'm assuming we haven't got every

1585
01:01:16,830 --> 01:01:18,000
single piece of music that's

1586
01:01:18,030 --> 01:01:19,920
ever gonna be made on it already.

1587
01:01:19,990 --> 01:01:20,780
You just said you made

1588
01:01:20,820 --> 01:01:25,490
new forest music, right? So, you know, let's.

1589
01:01:25,520 --> 01:01:27,260
Maybe that's a great place to go, is, like,

1590
01:01:27,300 --> 01:01:29,020
where are you guys looking to

1591
01:01:29,060 --> 01:01:30,690
expand and entice people with some

1592
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:33,250
of this premium stuff in the future?

1593
01:01:33,340 --> 01:01:36,570
And what can people look forward

1594
01:01:36,660 --> 01:01:39,420
to in the coming months and years?

1595
01:01:39,490 --> 01:01:40,780
From Pocket Bard,

1596
01:01:41,920 --> 01:01:43,780
I'll start by saying the next

1597
01:01:43,850 --> 01:01:46,780
big thing to look forward to is tavern.

1598
01:01:48,240 --> 01:01:50,900
We have been planning and plotting

1599
01:01:50,950 --> 01:01:53,700
from the start for something pretty

1600
01:01:53,750 --> 01:01:56,580
incredible with our tavern music pack,

1601
01:01:57,200 --> 01:02:01,470
and I can't give a lot of detail at the moment

1602
01:02:01,540 --> 01:02:05,740
other than to say it's going to be a pretty.

1603
01:02:06,760 --> 01:02:07,910
It's certainly going to

1604
01:02:07,940 --> 01:02:09,620
fit within the pocket part experience,

1605
01:02:09,770 --> 01:02:11,060
but I think it's going to elevate

1606
01:02:11,110 --> 01:02:13,310
things quite a bit beyond that.

1607
01:02:13,340 --> 01:02:14,960
We have a whole roadmap of music

1608
01:02:15,080 --> 01:02:19,820
that we have planned, some free, some premium,

1609
01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:23,140
and we'll continue to improve

1610
01:02:23,230 --> 01:02:25,980
the existing music that's there as well.

1611
01:02:26,640 --> 01:02:29,500
And then we have some cool platform features.

1612
01:02:29,570 --> 01:02:30,820
I don't know if Alex or Jason,

1613
01:02:30,870 --> 01:02:32,930
you guys want to get into any details on that,

1614
01:02:33,020 --> 01:02:35,660
on any of the platform feature improvements,

1615
01:02:35,730 --> 01:02:37,900
but suffice it to say

1616
01:02:37,950 --> 01:02:40,580
that as we improve the pocket board,

1617
01:02:40,650 --> 01:02:42,430
the Pocket Bard platform itself,

1618
01:02:42,580 --> 01:02:45,940
all of those new kind of features and things

1619
01:02:46,130 --> 01:02:49,220
will become part of the core experience.

1620
01:02:52,730 --> 01:02:54,030
We don't really

1621
01:02:54,060 --> 01:02:55,720
have any features planned that are,

1622
01:02:55,750 --> 01:02:58,880
like premium only type features because

1623
01:02:59,070 --> 01:03:01,160
that's not really the direction that we

1624
01:03:01,230 --> 01:03:03,620
necessarily want to go with it at the moment.

1625
01:03:03,790 --> 01:03:05,790
Yeah, on the content side.

1626
01:03:07,690 --> 01:03:11,710
So I've been writing music for this since 2019,

1627
01:03:12,490 --> 01:03:14,490
so I now have four

1628
01:03:14,530 --> 01:03:16,770
more years experience doing this,

1629
01:03:16,880 --> 01:03:17,940
and all of us do.

1630
01:03:17,970 --> 01:03:20,410
Chase has four more years experience mastering.

1631
01:03:20,500 --> 01:03:22,940
That's the stage that I send the music off

1632
01:03:22,970 --> 01:03:25,170
to him and then implementing it in the app.

1633
01:03:25,320 --> 01:03:28,620
So we've all gotten better at what we do.

1634
01:03:28,770 --> 01:03:31,850
So I'm going back through and elevating

1635
01:03:31,960 --> 01:03:35,570
the free fantasy essentials content to be

1636
01:03:36,790 --> 01:03:39,290
where the current standard of the app is.

1637
01:03:39,420 --> 01:03:42,790
We've released Sci-Fi seafaring horror,

1638
01:03:42,940 --> 01:03:44,600
and I think when we did Sci-Fi,

1639
01:03:44,630 --> 01:03:46,350
it just kind of brought the standard,

1640
01:03:46,400 --> 01:03:47,060
in my opinion,

1641
01:03:47,110 --> 01:03:49,750
of the music in the app,

1642
01:03:49,800 --> 01:03:51,080
the production quality,

1643
01:03:51,190 --> 01:03:51,870
the amount of

1644
01:03:51,900 --> 01:03:54,190
music in each scene, the interactivity.

1645
01:03:54,260 --> 01:03:56,470
It's at a different level than the free stuff

1646
01:03:56,500 --> 01:04:01,470
that 98% of our users are used to. Right.

1647
01:04:01,600 --> 01:04:05,550
So I'm excited to go back and up the

1648
01:04:05,580 --> 01:04:07,910
level of that because that's something that

1649
01:04:09,330 --> 01:04:13,220
our expectations are luckily always

1650
01:04:13,270 --> 01:04:16,010
ahead of our customers in general. Right? Like,

1651
01:04:16,050 --> 01:04:18,130
we've used this app all the time.

1652
01:04:18,250 --> 01:04:20,290
I know the music backwards and forwards.

1653
01:04:20,330 --> 01:04:21,430
I know what could be better.

1654
01:04:21,480 --> 01:04:24,080
I know where every track up that mix I did

1655
01:04:24,150 --> 01:04:26,100
three years ago doesn't sound quite right.

1656
01:04:26,270 --> 01:04:27,940
I know what we could do better. Now.

1657
01:04:28,070 --> 01:04:30,830
This scene needs like ten minutes more music.

1658
01:04:31,210 --> 01:04:35,980
I'm excited to show our users what new

1659
01:04:36,010 --> 01:04:38,810
standards look like that we are currently at,

1660
01:04:38,860 --> 01:04:40,440
but only a small subset of people

1661
01:04:40,480 --> 01:04:43,420
are aware of with our premium content.

1662
01:04:44,200 --> 01:04:45,690
Hey, nerdpreneurs. We'll get back to

1663
01:04:45,700 --> 01:04:47,620
the show in just a second.

1664
01:04:47,770 --> 01:04:49,260
We spent another 40 minutes

1665
01:04:49,290 --> 01:04:50,780
with Pocketbard talking through

1666
01:04:50,810 --> 01:04:52,860
their customer acquisition strategy,

1667
01:04:52,970 --> 01:04:55,150
how they established market share, the

1668
01:04:55,180 --> 01:04:57,670
most stressful times they've had as a startup,

1669
01:04:57,700 --> 01:04:59,020
and how they got through it,

1670
01:04:59,110 --> 01:05:01,290
and their experience at PAX and how they

1671
01:05:01,330 --> 01:05:03,550
leverage that event to grow their brand.

1672
01:05:03,700 --> 01:05:05,550
To get access to the full interview

1673
01:05:05,620 --> 01:05:07,190
and dozens of other interviews

1674
01:05:07,220 --> 01:05:09,200
with successful nerdy entrepreneurs,

1675
01:05:09,350 --> 01:05:12,030
join our awesome nerdpreneur board

1676
01:05:13,130 --> 01:05:17,280
by going to patreon.com nerdpreneur.

1677
01:05:17,470 --> 01:05:19,260
We don't advertise on our show,

1678
01:05:19,390 --> 01:05:21,040
and we keep doing this because we

1679
01:05:21,070 --> 01:05:23,080
love it and because of the support

1680
01:05:23,150 --> 01:05:25,870
we get from our amazing board members.

1681
01:05:26,040 --> 01:05:27,910
The more board members we get,

1682
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:30,550
the bigger our guests will be and

1683
01:05:30,660 --> 01:05:32,990
the more cons and events we can go

1684
01:05:33,020 --> 01:05:35,280
to to meet other nerdy entrepreneurs

1685
01:05:35,350 --> 01:05:37,940
and discover their success secrets.

1686
01:05:38,110 --> 01:05:39,210
So if you want to see us

1687
01:05:39,250 --> 01:05:40,950
grow and keep doing what we're doing.

1688
01:05:41,000 --> 01:05:42,590
The number one way you can help

1689
01:05:42,620 --> 01:05:45,220
us out is by becoming a board member.

1690
01:05:45,310 --> 01:05:47,310
So go to patreon.com

1691
01:05:47,650 --> 01:05:49,910
nerdpreneur and join today.

1692
01:05:50,370 --> 01:05:51,950
Now let's get back to the show.

1693
01:05:54,540 --> 01:05:55,140
All right,

1694
01:05:55,220 --> 01:05:57,980
so we're going to move on over to random rolls.

1695
01:05:58,020 --> 01:05:59,990
So these are less serious,

1696
01:06:00,160 --> 01:06:02,360
bit more fun questions.

1697
01:06:02,660 --> 01:06:03,760
I think everything we've

1698
01:06:03,790 --> 01:06:04,740
talked about has been very fun,

1699
01:06:04,780 --> 01:06:05,750
don't get me wrong.

1700
01:06:05,880 --> 01:06:07,990
But let's go ahead and start with Chase.

1701
01:06:08,040 --> 01:06:10,010
You're just left most on my screen,

1702
01:06:10,080 --> 01:06:12,570
so go ahead and roll your d 100, please.

1703
01:06:12,760 --> 01:06:15,800
I would also like to point out I've got.

1704
01:06:16,100 --> 01:06:19,540
These are my dice that my wife got me.

1705
01:06:19,570 --> 01:06:20,990
I don't know if they'll show up on camera,

1706
01:06:21,030 --> 01:06:24,170
but they're spider themed because

1707
01:06:25,150 --> 01:06:31,330
my current D and D character is connected to.

1708
01:06:31,750 --> 01:06:35,220
We play in the Exandria universe and

1709
01:06:35,250 --> 01:06:37,750
is connected to Lolf the Spider Queen.

1710
01:06:37,830 --> 01:06:39,240
And so playing

1711
01:06:39,290 --> 01:06:41,740
with these spider dice is cool. So. All right,

1712
01:06:41,850 --> 01:06:43,090
I will roll this.

1713
01:06:45,010 --> 01:06:47,210
53 in Star Trek,

1714
01:06:47,250 --> 01:06:50,070
there are six divisions, science, medicine,

1715
01:06:50,180 --> 01:06:54,300
command, con, security, and engineering.

1716
01:06:54,470 --> 01:06:57,550
Which division would you train into?

1717
01:06:59,930 --> 01:07:01,990
They don't have audio engineering.

1718
01:07:02,120 --> 01:07:03,270
Yeah, sorry.

1719
01:07:06,170 --> 01:07:06,910
You know,

1720
01:07:07,020 --> 01:07:09,020
it's hard because life on

1721
01:07:09,030 --> 01:07:14,080
a starship is different than life here,

1722
01:07:14,200 --> 01:07:16,700
back here on Earth and at a startup.

1723
01:07:18,440 --> 01:07:21,980
I think the other thing is,

1724
01:07:22,030 --> 01:07:23,560
this is interestingly appropriate.

1725
01:07:23,600 --> 01:07:25,700
I've been playing a lot of traveler lately,

1726
01:07:25,750 --> 01:07:27,860
which is a Sci-Fi TTRPG,

1727
01:07:28,010 --> 01:07:30,300
so my mind is definitely in that space,

1728
01:07:31,400 --> 01:07:33,860
but a ching. I think.

1729
01:07:34,010 --> 01:07:35,340
I think for me,

1730
01:07:36,890 --> 01:07:39,510
it's got to be between command and engineering.

1731
01:07:41,530 --> 01:07:43,470
I think I might have to go with command.

1732
01:07:43,850 --> 01:07:44,750
How come?

1733
01:07:47,530 --> 01:07:50,790
I think my kind of natural leadership

1734
01:07:50,840 --> 01:07:53,210
tendencies in something like

1735
01:07:53,290 --> 01:07:56,790
a starship exploration vessel environment,

1736
01:07:57,610 --> 01:08:01,960
I think I have a lot to lend to that.

1737
01:08:02,030 --> 01:08:05,550
And I feel like if I. If

1738
01:08:05,580 --> 01:08:08,970
I weren't in a command position, if I didn't,

1739
01:08:09,010 --> 01:08:10,810
if I didn't try for a command position,

1740
01:08:10,890 --> 01:08:11,990
I would feel like.

1741
01:08:12,610 --> 01:08:14,360
I feel like I would have more to give that

1742
01:08:14,390 --> 01:08:16,550
I didn't give myself the opportunity to.

1743
01:08:17,729 --> 01:08:19,930
Nice. Starfleet's all about everyone

1744
01:08:20,010 --> 01:08:21,090
living up to their potential,

1745
01:08:21,170 --> 01:08:25,029
so I resonate with that. Thank you.

1746
01:08:26,290 --> 01:08:27,840
All right, Jason, how about you?

1747
01:08:27,990 --> 01:08:28,300
All right.

1748
01:08:28,310 --> 01:08:32,529
Let me roll this online. Roller 60.

1749
01:08:34,670 --> 01:08:36,609
So this is a two part question.

1750
01:08:37,590 --> 01:08:40,590
If you had a band, first,

1751
01:08:40,710 --> 01:08:41,939
what spell would

1752
01:08:41,970 --> 01:08:45,020
you name your band after? And second,

1753
01:08:45,170 --> 01:08:48,130
what kind of music would your band play?

1754
01:08:48,510 --> 01:08:54,090
This is perfect for a tabletop RPG music app.

1755
01:08:55,920 --> 01:08:57,140
So out of the three of us,

1756
01:08:57,170 --> 01:08:58,260
I am the least

1757
01:08:59,399 --> 01:09:02,380
familiar with D and D and ttrpgs.

1758
01:09:03,840 --> 01:09:07,470
The spell part might be hard what do I know?

1759
01:09:07,569 --> 01:09:08,770
Just call yourself fireball.

1760
01:09:08,819 --> 01:09:10,540
That's a great name for a band.

1761
01:09:12,080 --> 01:09:13,210
We can help you out, Jason,

1762
01:09:13,260 --> 01:09:14,220
if you want to.

1763
01:09:14,390 --> 01:09:15,830
Yeah. Chase, can you give me,

1764
01:09:15,850 --> 01:09:17,710
like three spell options here?

1765
01:09:17,850 --> 01:09:19,779
Well, what type of music first?

1766
01:09:19,830 --> 01:09:22,029
Then it would go from there.

1767
01:09:24,090 --> 01:09:25,630
Definitely something like melodic.

1768
01:09:25,680 --> 01:09:29,390
Maybe like RMB or something.

1769
01:09:31,250 --> 01:09:32,229
Oh, yeah.

1770
01:09:32,970 --> 01:09:34,370
D and D, R and B.

1771
01:09:34,450 --> 01:09:37,109
Makes me think Melf's acid arrow.

1772
01:09:38,170 --> 01:09:39,390
Let's go with that.

1773
01:09:40,930 --> 01:09:42,750
That honestly is a.

1774
01:09:43,170 --> 01:09:44,970
For some reason that works for RB.

1775
01:09:45,090 --> 01:09:45,790
Yeah.

1776
01:09:48,899 --> 01:09:49,729
It'S kind of smooth.

1777
01:09:49,760 --> 01:09:52,000
I like that with a little hit.

1778
01:09:52,109 --> 01:09:54,840
And then it kind of blows up at the end.

1779
01:09:55,260 --> 01:09:57,080
Maybe that part doesn't work, but.

1780
01:09:59,500 --> 01:10:01,150
All right, Alex, what about you?

1781
01:10:01,280 --> 01:10:02,720
All right, I got 89.

1782
01:10:04,140 --> 01:10:05,600
89.

1783
01:10:08,820 --> 01:10:11,490
Ah, nice. What makes

1784
01:10:11,560 --> 01:10:13,960
a great friendship stronger?

1785
01:10:15,350 --> 01:10:17,770
Are there, like multiple choice?

1786
01:10:21,750 --> 01:10:26,600
No, but it has to be silly. No, it does not.

1787
01:10:26,690 --> 01:10:28,270
Makes a great friendship stronger.

1788
01:10:28,310 --> 01:10:30,730
So it's already starting out great, right?

1789
01:10:31,270 --> 01:10:31,690
Yeah.

1790
01:10:31,740 --> 01:10:32,130
Okay.

1791
01:10:32,200 --> 01:10:32,850
Yeah, great.

1792
01:10:32,920 --> 01:10:33,650
Okay.

1793
01:10:41,320 --> 01:10:42,700
That's a really good question.

1794
01:10:43,600 --> 01:10:44,950
Business partnership.

1795
01:10:45,100 --> 01:10:47,700
Yeah. Going into business together.

1796
01:10:48,240 --> 01:10:49,160
Start an app with.

1797
01:10:49,200 --> 01:10:49,560
Honestly.

1798
01:10:49,640 --> 01:10:51,660
Honestly, though, that's actually

1799
01:10:51,730 --> 01:10:53,740
probably the best answer

1800
01:10:53,890 --> 01:10:57,020
that I would have, because realistically,

1801
01:10:58,480 --> 01:11:00,080
it's hard to find time

1802
01:11:00,200 --> 01:11:02,310
to hang out with friends. Right. Like,

1803
01:11:02,380 --> 01:11:03,610
stuff is like,

1804
01:11:03,700 --> 01:11:05,010
we have busy lives, especially

1805
01:11:05,060 --> 01:11:06,870
around this age. Right. This is like,

1806
01:11:06,900 --> 01:11:08,110
kind of the peak in busyness

1807
01:11:08,180 --> 01:11:10,980
in the twenties, thirties, forties. Right.

1808
01:11:11,880 --> 01:11:14,040
So it's part

1809
01:11:14,200 --> 01:11:15,990
of the reason I've always wanted to, like,

1810
01:11:16,100 --> 01:11:17,340
get people involved in

1811
01:11:17,390 --> 01:11:18,870
businesses or projects is so

1812
01:11:18,900 --> 01:11:22,720
I could hang out with them more. So honestly,

1813
01:11:22,760 --> 01:11:23,770
that's the right.

1814
01:11:23,860 --> 01:11:25,780
I think that's the right answer because

1815
01:11:26,120 --> 01:11:28,320
I've been able to hang out with

1816
01:11:28,360 --> 01:11:30,660
Chase and Jason now so many more

1817
01:11:30,690 --> 01:11:33,480
hours a week than I would have otherwise.

1818
01:11:33,650 --> 01:11:34,390
And whenever.

1819
01:11:34,440 --> 01:11:35,260
And who launched

1820
01:11:35,300 --> 01:11:36,630
this business in the first place?

1821
01:11:36,680 --> 01:11:37,440
I forget.

1822
01:11:38,740 --> 01:11:41,160
I mean, Chase and I kind of. Yeah.

1823
01:11:41,780 --> 01:11:43,850
Okay. I thought the answer

1824
01:11:43,880 --> 01:11:45,060
was going to be Alex, actually.

1825
01:11:45,140 --> 01:11:46,590
And that was all part of its plan.

1826
01:11:46,640 --> 01:11:47,760
This entire time,

1827
01:11:48,860 --> 01:11:50,210
this has been like an on.

1828
01:11:50,280 --> 01:11:53,200
Kind of an ongoing threat.

1829
01:11:53,270 --> 01:11:56,520
There's an ongoing thread throughout this

1830
01:11:56,570 --> 01:12:00,840
business and previous projects. Businesses.

1831
01:12:00,920 --> 01:12:01,530
Chase and I had

1832
01:12:01,540 --> 01:12:03,980
a video game audio company previously,

1833
01:12:04,010 --> 01:12:05,780
like we mentioned, Jason. I.

1834
01:12:05,870 --> 01:12:08,960
Jason and I worked on a game in a college.

1835
01:12:09,000 --> 01:12:10,730
He had a computer science project.

1836
01:12:10,820 --> 01:12:12,360
Like a math game.

1837
01:12:12,400 --> 01:12:13,890
Oh, yeah. You wrote the music to it.

1838
01:12:13,940 --> 01:12:17,100
Yeah. Yeah. So we've. We've always

1839
01:12:17,150 --> 01:12:19,030
been finding ways to pair up

1840
01:12:19,060 --> 01:12:20,860
to work on fun stuff and the same

1841
01:12:20,890 --> 01:12:22,740
thing with other creative, creative projects,

1842
01:12:22,790 --> 01:12:24,260
working on songs with people.

1843
01:12:26,130 --> 01:12:28,430
It's a great way to feel

1844
01:12:28,460 --> 01:12:30,400
like you're being productive and

1845
01:12:30,510 --> 01:12:34,870
engaging in our capitalistic society,

1846
01:12:34,960 --> 01:12:36,520
getting the benefits of that while

1847
01:12:36,590 --> 01:12:38,300
also being able to hang out with

1848
01:12:38,390 --> 01:12:40,310
people that you enjoy being around,

1849
01:12:40,440 --> 01:12:43,380
because that's one of the things I try to

1850
01:12:43,390 --> 01:12:46,030
find as many dual purpose tasks as possible.

1851
01:12:46,930 --> 01:12:48,630
I'm working out,

1852
01:12:48,700 --> 01:12:51,920
and I'm on the phone with my mom

1853
01:12:51,970 --> 01:12:54,990
while I'm secretly on a meeting. And, you know,

1854
01:12:55,080 --> 01:12:56,640
not actually that, but.

1855
01:12:57,660 --> 01:12:58,910
But as many of those

1856
01:12:58,960 --> 01:13:00,300
things can fit together as possible.

1857
01:13:00,380 --> 01:13:01,670
I'm learning about

1858
01:13:01,720 --> 01:13:04,360
business while I'm walking my dog. Right.

1859
01:13:04,550 --> 01:13:06,350
I'm always trying to do multiple

1860
01:13:06,400 --> 01:13:08,420
things at once and being

1861
01:13:08,460 --> 01:13:10,490
able to actually spend time with. I mean,

1862
01:13:10,520 --> 01:13:11,790
these guys are the people I,

1863
01:13:11,840 --> 01:13:12,680
other than my girlfriend,

1864
01:13:12,710 --> 01:13:15,000
that I see the most in the world, so.

1865
01:13:15,620 --> 01:13:16,750
So you would recommend

1866
01:13:16,800 --> 01:13:18,680
going into business with your friends.

1867
01:13:19,940 --> 01:13:20,980
Use slicing pie.

1868
01:13:21,020 --> 01:13:22,010
If you do that, though,

1869
01:13:22,120 --> 01:13:23,930
that's against common wisdom, right?

1870
01:13:24,080 --> 01:13:24,640
Yeah.

1871
01:13:24,750 --> 01:13:26,050
You just got to have the right friends.

1872
01:13:26,120 --> 01:13:26,570
Yeah.

1873
01:13:26,680 --> 01:13:27,320
Yeah.

1874
01:13:27,780 --> 01:13:29,000
It is becoming a bit

1875
01:13:29,010 --> 01:13:31,220
of a theme on nerdpreneur, though. Like, we.

1876
01:13:31,300 --> 01:13:32,440
When we do,

1877
01:13:32,630 --> 01:13:33,440
we usually are

1878
01:13:33,470 --> 01:13:35,420
talking to successful businesses, though, too.

1879
01:13:35,460 --> 01:13:36,720
So I want to give that caveat

1880
01:13:36,750 --> 01:13:38,700
that we have a natural filter for. Whether

1881
01:13:38,740 --> 01:13:40,900
you even get on this podcast is success.

1882
01:13:41,060 --> 01:13:42,770
So we're not seeing all the friendships

1883
01:13:42,800 --> 01:13:44,630
that dissolved over starting an app together.

1884
01:13:44,720 --> 01:13:46,840
Maybe we should. Maybe we should.

1885
01:13:48,220 --> 01:13:49,960
But I can say that I think

1886
01:13:50,130 --> 01:13:51,680
there are a lot of people that,

1887
01:13:51,850 --> 01:13:54,080
at least in this generation,

1888
01:13:54,190 --> 01:13:56,230
that want to work with their friends and want

1889
01:13:56,240 --> 01:13:58,250
to do this more on their own terms and be able

1890
01:13:58,280 --> 01:14:00,260
to create companies in their nerdy passion.

1891
01:14:00,300 --> 01:14:02,400
And I think that that's something

1892
01:14:02,450 --> 01:14:04,540
we keep finding as we go out there,

1893
01:14:04,580 --> 01:14:06,360
as it emerges out of them talking

1894
01:14:06,390 --> 01:14:07,870
with their friends about an idea and

1895
01:14:07,880 --> 01:14:09,520
them seeing their friends struggle

1896
01:14:09,550 --> 01:14:10,640
with something and then being like, oh,

1897
01:14:10,670 --> 01:14:11,570
why don't we just fix this?

1898
01:14:11,600 --> 01:14:12,400
Or why don't we do something

1899
01:14:12,450 --> 01:14:14,330
to create something that's good,

1900
01:14:14,500 --> 01:14:15,660
having the spirit,

1901
01:14:15,690 --> 01:14:16,660
the entrepreneurial spirit,

1902
01:14:16,690 --> 01:14:18,090
to actually go and do it.

1903
01:14:19,950 --> 01:14:22,920
I know it'll create bonds and connections

1904
01:14:23,010 --> 01:14:25,730
and friendships at a much deeper level than

1905
01:14:26,470 --> 01:14:28,760
just playing D and d together.

1906
01:14:28,810 --> 01:14:30,360
This is like a real adventure, right?

1907
01:14:30,410 --> 01:14:32,930
Yeah. And I do want to point out that I think,

1908
01:14:33,060 --> 01:14:35,270
because it is actually legitimately very

1909
01:14:35,310 --> 01:14:38,450
important to keep in mind how many businesses,

1910
01:14:38,580 --> 01:14:40,100
either businesses get broken

1911
01:14:40,130 --> 01:14:41,970
up because friendships fall apart,

1912
01:14:42,020 --> 01:14:44,160
or friendships fall apart because businesses,

1913
01:14:44,250 --> 01:14:47,610
you know, go south. Like, that's definitely.

1914
01:14:48,110 --> 01:14:49,410
I don't know the data on that,

1915
01:14:49,440 --> 01:14:51,990
but it's probably not, like,

1916
01:14:52,030 --> 01:14:54,970
a fully positive outlook.

1917
01:14:55,350 --> 01:14:57,290
But I think we are all very,

1918
01:14:58,630 --> 01:15:00,980
very focused on what we are doing

1919
01:15:01,090 --> 01:15:04,010
as individuals to contribute to the team. Like,

1920
01:15:04,870 --> 01:15:08,750
I don't get the vibe that we're all like. Like,

1921
01:15:08,880 --> 01:15:10,860
stewing or seething. Like,

1922
01:15:10,990 --> 01:15:12,200
Chase didn't do enough.

1923
01:15:12,310 --> 01:15:12,880
You know what I mean?

1924
01:15:12,910 --> 01:15:14,630
We're focused on our individual

1925
01:15:14,780 --> 01:15:16,610
contributions to this and living

1926
01:15:16,690 --> 01:15:18,800
up to what we expect of ourselves

1927
01:15:18,990 --> 01:15:21,220
and being very self motivated people.

1928
01:15:21,310 --> 01:15:24,530
I think when we're stressed,

1929
01:15:24,690 --> 01:15:25,550
at least for me,

1930
01:15:25,580 --> 01:15:27,610
and I know Chase as well,

1931
01:15:27,770 --> 01:15:30,730
we're usually focused in on what we're

1932
01:15:30,770 --> 01:15:33,650
not achieving or bringing to the team. Like,

1933
01:15:33,740 --> 01:15:36,420
it goes more inward than outward.

1934
01:15:36,490 --> 01:15:38,130
But if you're predisposed to

1935
01:15:38,140 --> 01:15:40,520
go outward towards this

1936
01:15:40,560 --> 01:15:42,810
person's not doing their thing or, you know,

1937
01:15:42,900 --> 01:15:45,520
and not be self reflective and take

1938
01:15:45,560 --> 01:15:47,580
ownership for the success of everything,

1939
01:15:48,040 --> 01:15:50,700
that would go badly very quickly.

1940
01:15:51,840 --> 01:15:54,820
Yeah, that ownership is. Yeah,

1941
01:15:54,930 --> 01:15:56,310
I definitely resonate with that. I mean,

1942
01:15:56,340 --> 01:15:57,450
I find that for Chris and I,

1943
01:15:57,460 --> 01:16:00,180
we both are very good at recognizing where

1944
01:16:00,230 --> 01:16:04,070
we ourselves need to fill in and other

1945
01:16:04,100 --> 01:16:09,510
people we've spoken to as well. Yeah. Well,

1946
01:16:09,660 --> 01:16:12,720
shall we move on to rapid fire, everybody?

1947
01:16:12,870 --> 01:16:15,230
So these are going to be,

1948
01:16:15,320 --> 01:16:17,830
as the name suggests, rapid.

1949
01:16:18,610 --> 01:16:20,310
And we've never done this with three people,

1950
01:16:20,380 --> 01:16:22,510
so we're going to figure this out.

1951
01:16:23,050 --> 01:16:24,220
And if you couldn't tell already,

1952
01:16:24,270 --> 01:16:25,390
we're long winded,

1953
01:16:25,970 --> 01:16:27,390
so we'll do our best.

1954
01:16:29,760 --> 01:16:30,820
I was thinking, like,

1955
01:16:30,870 --> 01:16:32,980
do we want to go around and, like,

1956
01:16:33,920 --> 01:16:36,520
one after the other and just, like, rapid fire.

1957
01:16:36,560 --> 01:16:38,760
And you and I alternate, and then. Well,

1958
01:16:38,840 --> 01:16:42,530
I'm thinking I'll follow this pattern. Chris,

1959
01:16:42,580 --> 01:16:44,780
you can be the voice of chaos if you like,

1960
01:16:44,810 --> 01:16:47,260
but I'm gonna do chase. Jason. Alex.

1961
01:16:48,240 --> 01:16:48,910
All right.

1962
01:16:49,020 --> 01:16:50,860
Okay. Yes, he's agreed.

1963
01:16:51,030 --> 01:16:53,730
I will see how that goes. I can.

1964
01:16:53,780 --> 01:16:56,020
I can switch it all up in editing anyway,

1965
01:16:56,050 --> 01:16:57,190
so whatever you say.

1966
01:16:57,320 --> 01:16:59,190
I have the final say on it anyway.

1967
01:17:02,010 --> 01:17:05,950
Chase, three favorite pizza toppings.

1968
01:17:08,410 --> 01:17:14,230
Italian sausage, pineapple, and jalapenos.

1969
01:17:15,210 --> 01:17:18,350
Ah, the salty, sweet, and spicy.

1970
01:17:19,050 --> 01:17:21,830
Jason, what is your zombie

1971
01:17:21,860 --> 01:17:23,420
apocalypse weapon of choice?

1972
01:17:23,560 --> 01:17:27,680
Oh, I'll take a baseball bat.

1973
01:17:27,810 --> 01:17:29,820
I think I can do some damage with it.

1974
01:17:29,900 --> 01:17:30,860
That's a good one.

1975
01:17:30,980 --> 01:17:34,880
Harley Quinn style. Love it. Alex,

1976
01:17:35,300 --> 01:17:36,360
this isn't on here,

1977
01:17:36,390 --> 01:17:37,340
but I have to ask,

1978
01:17:37,420 --> 01:17:38,880
how do you cleanse? Like,

1979
01:17:38,930 --> 01:17:41,070
when you're at the perfume stand and.

1980
01:17:41,160 --> 01:17:42,300
Because everybody does that. Right?

1981
01:17:42,340 --> 01:17:43,070
And you have to smell the

1982
01:17:43,080 --> 01:17:44,780
coffee beans to cleanse your nose.

1983
01:17:44,860 --> 01:17:46,850
What do you do to cleanse your ears?

1984
01:17:47,040 --> 01:17:49,240
Oh, that's a great question. I'll usually.

1985
01:17:49,760 --> 01:17:50,270
I mean,

1986
01:17:50,340 --> 01:17:53,180
sleep is the only actual effective thing, like,

1987
01:17:53,290 --> 01:17:54,780
waiting to the next day.

1988
01:17:55,360 --> 01:17:56,610
But I'll often go

1989
01:17:56,620 --> 01:17:58,700
to the gym and listen to music. That's

1990
01:17:58,790 --> 01:18:01,700
the opposite. Like, just metal, you know?

1991
01:18:02,720 --> 01:18:04,680
Nice. So you weren't. You guys aren't planning

1992
01:18:04,720 --> 01:18:09,160
to do any dwarven metal music yet? I. Well,

1993
01:18:09,320 --> 01:18:10,040
because that

1994
01:18:10,080 --> 01:18:12,910
was something I went deep into. It is.

1995
01:18:12,980 --> 01:18:15,260
There is a dwarven metal band that we're in

1996
01:18:15,270 --> 01:18:18,020
the process of getting on the podcast. So nice.

1997
01:18:18,570 --> 01:18:19,280
So anyway,

1998
01:18:19,350 --> 01:18:21,150
I guess that's not planned yet.

1999
01:18:22,050 --> 01:18:23,580
We'll put you guys in touch with the band.

2000
01:18:23,630 --> 01:18:25,270
Sweet chase,

2001
01:18:25,400 --> 01:18:26,110
Lord of the Rings,

2002
01:18:26,160 --> 01:18:27,470
the books or the movies.

2003
01:18:28,130 --> 01:18:30,590
Oh, my gosh. I have to make the

2004
01:18:30,660 --> 01:18:32,950
biggest nerd confession in history.

2005
01:18:34,450 --> 01:18:37,150
I saw the first lord of the Rings movie once.

2006
01:18:39,610 --> 01:18:41,510
And it stopped that, period.

2007
01:18:43,650 --> 01:18:44,950
That's the end of it.

2008
01:18:45,370 --> 01:18:48,490
I make every apology necessary. I understand.

2009
01:18:48,570 --> 01:18:50,750
I committed a big sin here.

2010
01:18:51,130 --> 01:18:52,750
Whatever happened at pocket Bard? Well,

2011
01:18:52,780 --> 01:18:54,080
we found out they never watched Lord

2012
01:18:54,110 --> 01:18:57,150
of the Rings and their evaluation went.

2013
01:18:57,320 --> 01:18:58,240
Did you at least.

2014
01:18:58,350 --> 01:19:00,430
Was it at least the extended version?

2015
01:19:00,620 --> 01:19:01,630
Yes, it was.

2016
01:19:01,700 --> 01:19:03,430
Oh, thank goodness. Okay.

2017
01:19:03,600 --> 01:19:04,790
I would not have gone into

2018
01:19:04,820 --> 01:19:06,430
film scoring without Lord of the Rings.

2019
01:19:06,480 --> 01:19:09,910
That was like everything to me in childhood.

2020
01:19:10,020 --> 01:19:13,010
I think I would appreciate it more now. Again,

2021
01:19:13,170 --> 01:19:14,330
this is part of the.

2022
01:19:14,450 --> 01:19:16,620
As I mentioned at the top of the episode,

2023
01:19:16,710 --> 01:19:19,650
I didn't get into d and D until late in life.

2024
01:19:19,810 --> 01:19:23,500
The real reason is because I grew up a

2025
01:19:23,510 --> 01:19:27,110
Sci-Fi lover and I had this strange, just like,

2026
01:19:27,200 --> 01:19:29,940
gut aversion to high fantasy where

2027
01:19:30,030 --> 01:19:32,660
I just immediately would find myself

2028
01:19:32,750 --> 01:19:35,630
bored and never gave it a real chance.

2029
01:19:35,780 --> 01:19:39,190
And I feel so differently now.

2030
01:19:39,910 --> 01:19:40,860
I really wish that

2031
01:19:40,890 --> 01:19:42,310
I had learned to appreciate it sooner,

2032
01:19:42,350 --> 01:19:44,740
but that that's honestly the reason that Lord

2033
01:19:44,770 --> 01:19:47,370
of the Rings was never a big thing for me.

2034
01:19:48,390 --> 01:19:49,650
Get another shot at it.

2035
01:19:49,680 --> 01:19:52,240
Maybe that'll be a viewing party.

2036
01:19:52,290 --> 01:19:53,200
It's on the list now.

2037
01:19:53,290 --> 01:19:54,540
Yeah, once

2038
01:19:54,570 --> 01:19:56,060
you guys have some real time, you know,

2039
01:19:56,090 --> 01:19:57,490
once the stat picks up.

2040
01:19:58,590 --> 01:20:01,410
All right, Jason. Harry Potter.

2041
01:20:01,600 --> 01:20:04,850
What Hogwarts house are you in?

2042
01:20:06,910 --> 01:20:07,780
I think I just took

2043
01:20:07,810 --> 01:20:11,860
a quiz and I forgot what I got. Shoot.

2044
01:20:11,970 --> 01:20:13,010
Hufflepuff.

2045
01:20:15,550 --> 01:20:16,610
Slytherin.

2046
01:20:17,750 --> 01:20:18,580
Okay.

2047
01:20:18,730 --> 01:20:19,580
All right.

2048
01:20:19,770 --> 01:20:20,930
What did I get?

2049
01:20:21,790 --> 01:20:22,670
I dig it.

2050
01:20:22,750 --> 01:20:23,370
You know,

2051
01:20:23,480 --> 01:20:25,250
I recognize a snake when I see one.

2052
01:20:25,320 --> 01:20:28,220
You know, I could see, hey, slytherin.

2053
01:20:28,290 --> 01:20:29,530
This has been a topic before.

2054
01:20:29,600 --> 01:20:31,070
Slytherins get things done.

2055
01:20:31,150 --> 01:20:33,690
I will say I say that as a slim.

2056
01:20:33,730 --> 01:20:35,940
I could see Jason as any of them. To be honest,

2057
01:20:36,030 --> 01:20:37,260
I'm really not sure.

2058
01:20:37,390 --> 01:20:38,990
I was going thinking Gryffindor,

2059
01:20:39,040 --> 01:20:40,190
but I'm not sure.

2060
01:20:40,770 --> 01:20:42,310
No, it wasn't Gryffindor.

2061
01:20:42,850 --> 01:20:45,810
Alex, what is your favorite personal

2062
01:20:45,890 --> 01:20:47,870
growth or business book that you've read.

2063
01:20:49,610 --> 01:20:52,070
Is favorite have a plural or.

2064
01:20:55,410 --> 01:20:56,670
Sure. Me. If you have two

2065
01:20:56,700 --> 01:20:58,620
on the top of your head, go for it.

2066
01:20:58,730 --> 01:20:59,540
Books have totally

2067
01:20:59,570 --> 01:21:01,810
changed my life. Mindfulness. In plain English,

2068
01:21:01,940 --> 01:21:04,740
that was the first like life shifting book.

2069
01:21:05,320 --> 01:21:07,780
Power of habit was another one.

2070
01:21:08,880 --> 01:21:15,140
Build Tony Fadal and working backwards, chase.

2071
01:21:15,640 --> 01:21:18,900
As a avid Sci-Fi fellow Sci-Fi lover here,

2072
01:21:19,400 --> 01:21:21,620
your favorite Sci-Fi ip.

2073
01:21:24,130 --> 01:21:26,280
Oh, favorites. So difficult.

2074
01:21:26,430 --> 01:21:28,390
I have a lot of love for.

2075
01:21:30,290 --> 01:21:31,500
There are some very

2076
01:21:31,590 --> 01:21:34,450
strong runners up right now, though,

2077
01:21:34,570 --> 01:21:36,510
I have to say. The Expanse.

2078
01:21:38,090 --> 01:21:42,070
Nice books or the tv show or both books.

2079
01:21:42,220 --> 01:21:45,420
Okay. I have been completely captured,

2080
01:21:45,550 --> 01:21:47,550
and I'm loving it.

2081
01:21:48,010 --> 01:21:50,160
Okay. I'll give it a more serious

2082
01:21:50,230 --> 01:21:51,440
consideration the next time

2083
01:21:51,470 --> 01:21:53,510
I'm looking for a series to dive into.

2084
01:21:53,970 --> 01:21:54,810
I've tried

2085
01:21:54,890 --> 01:21:56,860
watching the expanse, like, three times,

2086
01:21:56,910 --> 01:21:57,750
and I cannot.

2087
01:21:57,840 --> 01:22:00,430
I just cannot get into it. I don't know.

2088
01:22:01,450 --> 01:22:02,750
I feel like it should be good. Like,

2089
01:22:02,800 --> 01:22:04,260
everything says to me.

2090
01:22:04,270 --> 01:22:04,890
It should be good,

2091
01:22:04,930 --> 01:22:06,350
but I just can't. I can't.

2092
01:22:06,420 --> 01:22:07,810
It just doesn't work for me.

2093
01:22:07,850 --> 01:22:09,760
But I would like to maybe try the books.

2094
01:22:09,790 --> 01:22:11,230
I didn't know they were actually books.

2095
01:22:11,300 --> 01:22:13,250
Yeah. Very, very good.

2096
01:22:13,330 --> 01:22:13,710
And it's.

2097
01:22:13,740 --> 01:22:15,680
It's. It's so hard to pick favorites, right.

2098
01:22:15,710 --> 01:22:16,550
Because there's

2099
01:22:16,580 --> 01:22:19,290
so much legacy of, like, obviously,

2100
01:22:19,380 --> 01:22:23,090
things like Star wars and Star Trek have such.

2101
01:22:23,180 --> 01:22:27,850
Such weight in the history of my

2102
01:22:27,960 --> 01:22:33,050
interest in Sci-Fi right. Or even, like, Dune.

2103
01:22:33,350 --> 01:22:36,490
I had such a big dune phase where I was like,

2104
01:22:36,540 --> 01:22:38,090
this is incredible.

2105
01:22:39,430 --> 01:22:40,610
But I think right now,

2106
01:22:40,640 --> 01:22:42,410
I'm just obsessed with the expanse.

2107
01:22:42,950 --> 01:22:44,460
Nice. I'm still

2108
01:22:44,490 --> 01:22:47,380
in my dune phase right now. So, Jason,

2109
01:22:47,510 --> 01:22:49,490
what's the coolest Batman gadget?

2110
01:22:49,540 --> 01:22:53,870
Ooh, whatever that thing is called

2111
01:22:53,940 --> 01:22:56,340
where he can just hook

2112
01:22:56,370 --> 01:22:59,020
onto buildings and fly up and down?

2113
01:22:59,760 --> 01:23:00,940
Is there a name for that, like.

2114
01:23:00,970 --> 01:23:02,450
Bat grip or whatever? I think it's, like,

2115
01:23:02,460 --> 01:23:03,700
the bat grip.

2116
01:23:04,360 --> 01:23:05,290
It depends on

2117
01:23:05,340 --> 01:23:07,180
which series you're talking about, but, yeah.

2118
01:23:07,230 --> 01:23:08,820
Bat gun. Grappling hook.

2119
01:23:08,910 --> 01:23:09,600
Grappling hook.

2120
01:23:09,640 --> 01:23:11,590
Yeah, the bat hook.

2121
01:23:11,660 --> 01:23:12,830
Yeah, the bat hook. Yeah.

2122
01:23:12,860 --> 01:23:13,030
Right?

2123
01:23:13,060 --> 01:23:13,670
Yeah.

2124
01:23:16,130 --> 01:23:17,470
Alex, that would be pretty cool.

2125
01:23:17,500 --> 01:23:19,190
Alex, who is cooler, Indiana

2126
01:23:19,220 --> 01:23:20,710
Jones or Lara Croft?

2127
01:23:21,450 --> 01:23:22,460
Indiana Jones.

2128
01:23:22,550 --> 01:23:24,520
I've never played any of the Tomb Raider games,

2129
01:23:24,630 --> 01:23:27,080
so I have no idea.

2130
01:23:27,230 --> 01:23:28,390
Excuse me. I'll be back.

2131
01:23:28,440 --> 01:23:28,830
Yeah.

2132
01:23:28,900 --> 01:23:30,950
You're gonna tear this company apart.

2133
01:23:31,370 --> 01:23:33,890
I've seen her in Xbox magazine ads,

2134
01:23:33,930 --> 01:23:35,750
and that's the extent of

2135
01:23:35,940 --> 01:23:37,910
my knowledge of Tomb Raider.

2136
01:23:39,020 --> 01:23:40,600
I do love Indiana Jones.

2137
01:23:40,900 --> 01:23:44,150
Yeah. The movies. Angelina Jolie were fun.

2138
01:23:44,200 --> 01:23:46,530
I rewatched the second one, like,

2139
01:23:46,720 --> 01:23:47,870
six years ago,

2140
01:23:48,000 --> 01:23:49,130
and I don't know

2141
01:23:49,160 --> 01:23:50,710
who was in charge for wardrobe,

2142
01:23:50,760 --> 01:23:53,510
but she had some of the weirdest style.

2143
01:23:53,560 --> 01:23:54,540
It was so funny.

2144
01:23:54,580 --> 01:23:55,960
She had this really cool,

2145
01:23:56,010 --> 01:23:58,280
probably super vintage gold

2146
01:23:59,460 --> 01:24:01,520
swirling dragons on the back.

2147
01:24:02,660 --> 01:24:03,740
I just remember thinking,

2148
01:24:03,820 --> 01:24:06,540
that's so odd for Lara Croft. Like, that

2149
01:24:06,570 --> 01:24:08,790
is not at all what I would have envisioned.

2150
01:24:08,830 --> 01:24:09,480
I thought she would be

2151
01:24:09,490 --> 01:24:12,730
more like the Indiana Jones style, but cooler.

2152
01:24:13,070 --> 01:24:15,610
And so the tvs don't hold up. Well,

2153
01:24:15,700 --> 01:24:18,380
what I'm trying to say is that the video games,

2154
01:24:18,490 --> 01:24:21,370
the newer video games do a great job.

2155
01:24:22,390 --> 01:24:24,770
Yeah. That's just something that.

2156
01:24:24,880 --> 01:24:28,210
I've missed so many of those. I was so.

2157
01:24:28,630 --> 01:24:29,520
Everything was like

2158
01:24:29,530 --> 01:24:32,590
Lord of the Rings or Star wars, and I.

2159
01:24:32,650 --> 01:24:34,280
I miss all the other franchises.

2160
01:24:34,330 --> 01:24:35,400
Or Harry Potter.

2161
01:24:38,180 --> 01:24:40,800
So, Chase, do you believe in aliens?

2162
01:24:41,660 --> 01:24:43,120
It depends on what you mean.

2163
01:24:43,820 --> 01:24:46,080
Does extraterrestrial life exist?

2164
01:24:47,100 --> 01:24:48,670
Almost to a certainty.

2165
01:24:48,800 --> 01:24:50,460
Has it ever visited Earth?

2166
01:24:50,580 --> 01:24:52,040
Almost certainly not.

2167
01:24:53,460 --> 01:24:54,340
That was a very nice,

2168
01:24:54,380 --> 01:24:56,500
succinct answer to a complicated question.

2169
01:24:56,580 --> 01:24:57,320
I like that.

2170
01:24:57,410 --> 01:24:58,900
I feel like you just stopped Chris

2171
01:24:58,940 --> 01:25:02,060
from asking something else based on. I haven't.

2172
01:25:04,960 --> 01:25:05,650
That's all right.

2173
01:25:05,700 --> 01:25:06,850
The most interesting part of

2174
01:25:06,860 --> 01:25:07,910
it is whether we think they've

2175
01:25:07,980 --> 01:25:10,460
arrived here or not, but. Yeah. Yeah, no.

2176
01:25:11,760 --> 01:25:14,220
All right. Jason,

2177
01:25:15,040 --> 01:25:17,100
if you could have.

2178
01:25:17,960 --> 01:25:19,300
I realize now this suddenly

2179
01:25:19,350 --> 01:25:21,160
sounds like a work interview question,

2180
01:25:21,200 --> 01:25:22,580
but I'm gonna ask it anyway.

2181
01:25:22,960 --> 01:25:26,550
If you could have lunch with anyone in history,

2182
01:25:26,730 --> 01:25:27,890
who would it be?

2183
01:25:28,590 --> 01:25:30,220
Alive or dead? Doesn't matter.

2184
01:25:30,250 --> 01:25:31,840
Yeah, doesn't matter.

2185
01:25:31,890 --> 01:25:33,050
Anyone in history.

2186
01:25:38,710 --> 01:25:41,370
I'll just go with. With Elon Musk.

2187
01:25:42,870 --> 01:25:45,210
Very topical these days. Yeah.

2188
01:25:45,550 --> 01:25:48,720
What would you guys talk about? Any, like,

2189
01:25:48,770 --> 01:25:50,690
coding or anything, or. Is there anything.

2190
01:25:50,740 --> 01:25:51,350
Probably a lot of

2191
01:25:51,390 --> 01:25:54,310
engineering conversations. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2192
01:25:54,460 --> 01:25:55,900
Nice. Nice.

2193
01:25:56,280 --> 01:25:58,780
Alex, how many cats is too many cats?

2194
01:25:59,480 --> 01:26:00,240
I mean,

2195
01:26:00,360 --> 01:26:01,860
how big is your apartment?

2196
01:26:04,520 --> 01:26:05,640
I'm a dog person,

2197
01:26:05,720 --> 01:26:07,590
but I do like cats. I don't know.

2198
01:26:07,620 --> 01:26:08,380
I would say real,

2199
01:26:08,430 --> 01:26:09,460
if I'm trying to be honest.

2200
01:26:09,530 --> 01:26:13,030
Probably four would be too many, right?

2201
01:26:13,220 --> 01:26:15,780
Three probably seems acceptable to me.

2202
01:26:16,800 --> 01:26:18,700
No experience with them, though. So.

2203
01:26:20,220 --> 01:26:20,860
You know what?

2204
01:26:20,900 --> 01:26:22,410
Just take a dive in.

2205
01:26:22,440 --> 01:26:23,360
Just start with three.

2206
01:26:23,430 --> 01:26:23,870
Yeah.

2207
01:26:23,960 --> 01:26:25,840
Just see how that goes, man. Yeah.

2208
01:26:25,870 --> 01:26:26,740
Get back to me.

2209
01:26:26,820 --> 01:26:28,400
Let me know how you're doing at.

2210
01:26:28,410 --> 01:26:29,720
The end from different locations.

2211
01:26:29,810 --> 01:26:31,830
Throw them all into one room, get.

2212
01:26:31,840 --> 01:26:32,960
Them off the street. Yeah.

2213
01:26:33,050 --> 01:26:34,370
Chase, I'm thinking

2214
01:26:34,400 --> 01:26:37,320
we do one more round here. Chase,

2215
01:26:38,180 --> 01:26:41,080
what character would you cosplay at Comic Con?

2216
01:26:45,130 --> 01:26:45,950
Mmm.

2217
01:26:48,290 --> 01:26:51,010
My wife and I have been talking about hopping

2218
01:26:51,050 --> 01:26:54,120
on the critical role cosplay bandwagon.

2219
01:26:54,230 --> 01:26:56,560
We're both big into campaign three.

2220
01:26:56,630 --> 01:27:00,470
And so I would love to.

2221
01:27:01,890 --> 01:27:04,230
I'd love to see if I could pull off

2222
01:27:04,650 --> 01:27:07,750
Dorian from earlier in the season.

2223
01:27:08,330 --> 01:27:12,020
He's a air genasi Bardeenen,

2224
01:27:12,100 --> 01:27:13,780
and that'd be cool.

2225
01:27:13,970 --> 01:27:15,010
When you say season three,

2226
01:27:15,040 --> 01:27:17,260
are you talking Vox machina on Amazon prime

2227
01:27:17,330 --> 01:27:19,480
or are you talking the actual live stream?

2228
01:27:19,490 --> 01:27:21,060
No, I'm talking about the actual. The

2229
01:27:21,090 --> 01:27:23,790
actual actual play live streams.

2230
01:27:23,830 --> 01:27:25,750
Yeah. Gotcha. Okay. Because

2231
01:27:25,910 --> 01:27:27,490
I am not in the know.

2232
01:27:28,310 --> 01:27:28,990
All good.

2233
01:27:29,070 --> 01:27:30,650
Except for the animated show.

2234
01:27:30,720 --> 01:27:31,850
That's all I got.

2235
01:27:33,710 --> 01:27:35,090
Which was very good.

2236
01:27:35,280 --> 01:27:37,050
It's very good. It's very fun.

2237
01:27:37,960 --> 01:27:41,780
Jason, what's your favorite movie franchise?

2238
01:27:43,960 --> 01:27:45,430
Honestly, I'm a sucker for

2239
01:27:45,500 --> 01:27:47,440
a lot of the Marvel universe. Universe.

2240
01:27:47,480 --> 01:27:50,100
So something, something there.

2241
01:27:51,680 --> 01:27:53,960
The whole thing can be a movie franchise.

2242
01:27:54,000 --> 01:27:55,340
You could just say Marvel.

2243
01:27:55,920 --> 01:27:58,330
It definitely works for a movie franchise.

2244
01:27:58,380 --> 01:27:59,580
There's only a couple.

2245
01:28:02,320 --> 01:28:03,320
A handful.

2246
01:28:03,510 --> 01:28:06,720
Alex, if you could visit

2247
01:28:07,900 --> 01:28:12,950
any fictional setting, you know, fantasy,

2248
01:28:13,040 --> 01:28:15,440
sci-Fi you know, anywhere,

2249
01:28:15,740 --> 01:28:18,920
and you could spend a week there,

2250
01:28:19,500 --> 01:28:20,680
where would it be?

2251
01:28:25,940 --> 01:28:28,360
Probably. I mean, I would want it to be as

2252
01:28:28,410 --> 01:28:31,020
different as possible, right? Like, the most.

2253
01:28:31,190 --> 01:28:32,780
So I would go something.

2254
01:28:33,080 --> 01:28:34,530
I would go Star wars,

2255
01:28:34,660 --> 01:28:36,660
and I'd probably go to, like,

2256
01:28:36,690 --> 01:28:37,910
the video game locations,

2257
01:28:37,980 --> 01:28:39,510
like knights of the old Republic,

2258
01:28:39,660 --> 01:28:40,840
all those locations there.

2259
01:28:40,880 --> 01:28:42,590
Because being able to actually, like,

2260
01:28:42,780 --> 01:28:44,610
be immersed in the places I was

2261
01:28:44,660 --> 01:28:47,280
for hundreds of hours as a kid,

2262
01:28:47,400 --> 01:28:49,100
I feel like that would be pretty cool.

2263
01:28:49,520 --> 01:28:51,340
And travel at light speed and, you know,

2264
01:28:51,370 --> 01:28:51,950
stuff like that,

2265
01:28:51,980 --> 01:28:53,140
that'd be pretty sweet.

2266
01:28:54,040 --> 01:28:55,020
Heck, yeah.

2267
01:28:55,760 --> 01:28:56,490
Can I ask

2268
01:28:56,540 --> 01:29:00,400
one more question of Chase? So, Chase,

2269
01:29:01,220 --> 01:29:03,360
are you related to Seth Rogen?

2270
01:29:04,940 --> 01:29:06,720
You had to do it.

2271
01:29:06,870 --> 01:29:09,630
I. I'm from Vancouver. I just gotta ask.

2272
01:29:09,680 --> 01:29:11,320
I've the whole interview, I've been like,

2273
01:29:11,350 --> 01:29:13,100
this guy is like a mini sister.

2274
01:29:13,140 --> 01:29:13,840
I was.

2275
01:29:16,220 --> 01:29:18,760
When I was getting married,

2276
01:29:19,820 --> 01:29:24,150
my wife went and did her, like,

2277
01:29:24,190 --> 01:29:26,210
bachelorette party with, you know,

2278
01:29:26,240 --> 01:29:27,760
her sisters and her cousins,

2279
01:29:27,850 --> 01:29:29,530
and they went to

2280
01:29:29,700 --> 01:29:31,220
this place in Michigan where they, like,

2281
01:29:31,250 --> 01:29:34,010
kind of spent the day out doing fun stuff.

2282
01:29:34,080 --> 01:29:35,900
And one of the things

2283
01:29:35,970 --> 01:29:38,170
that one of her bridesmaids

2284
01:29:38,240 --> 01:29:41,010
did for her was they took these, like,

2285
01:29:41,060 --> 01:29:42,470
popsicle sticks and printed

2286
01:29:42,510 --> 01:29:44,050
out pictures of my face

2287
01:29:44,120 --> 01:29:47,890
and made fans of me because, like, you know,

2288
01:29:47,980 --> 01:29:49,850
she's Chase's fan.

2289
01:29:50,620 --> 01:29:53,560
The number of people who stopped them and said,

2290
01:29:53,630 --> 01:29:56,360
are you guys some kind of Seth Rogen fan club?

2291
01:29:56,450 --> 01:29:58,880
What is this?

2292
01:29:58,950 --> 01:29:59,780
I'm not kidding.

2293
01:29:59,860 --> 01:30:01,840
This is a real thing that happened.

2294
01:30:03,180 --> 01:30:04,880
Wow. I've never seen the resemblance.

2295
01:30:04,950 --> 01:30:06,240
Now I can't see it.

2296
01:30:06,350 --> 01:30:06,790
No.

2297
01:30:06,880 --> 01:30:07,840
Are you serious?

2298
01:30:13,060 --> 01:30:14,480
I just thought that was Chase.

2299
01:30:16,350 --> 01:30:18,820
Well, sorry to break the illusion,

2300
01:30:18,890 --> 01:30:21,780
but it's. I. I've seen, like I said,

2301
01:30:21,810 --> 01:30:24,770
I'm from Vancouver, canadian. Like,

2302
01:30:24,860 --> 01:30:26,890
he's a treasure here. I know.

2303
01:30:26,920 --> 01:30:27,890
I go to the same thai

2304
01:30:27,940 --> 01:30:30,800
food restaurant that he goes to, and it's like,

2305
01:30:30,850 --> 01:30:32,500
am I about to interview Seth Rogen,

2306
01:30:32,530 --> 01:30:35,090
or is this like his, his kid or, like,

2307
01:30:35,120 --> 01:30:36,830
his nephew or something like,

2308
01:30:36,870 --> 01:30:38,990
what's going on here? But, uh,

2309
01:30:39,110 --> 01:30:41,250
it's just also your voice is like

2310
01:30:41,600 --> 01:30:44,160
bang on anyway with very different laughs.

2311
01:30:44,320 --> 01:30:45,660
His laugh is great.

2312
01:30:46,120 --> 01:30:47,930
Yeah. His laugh is infectious.

2313
01:30:47,980 --> 01:30:51,670
It's distinct. All right, now we can.

2314
01:30:51,780 --> 01:30:54,260
Okay, last thing I'd like to ask is,

2315
01:30:54,330 --> 01:30:56,830
is there anything any one of

2316
01:30:56,860 --> 01:30:59,940
you three would like to talk about? You know,

2317
01:30:59,970 --> 01:31:01,980
maybe a lesson or a takeaway

2318
01:31:02,030 --> 01:31:03,760
or something that we haven't touched on?

2319
01:31:03,880 --> 01:31:04,910
Or maybe there's. There's

2320
01:31:04,940 --> 01:31:07,900
a nugget that you'd like to really, you know,

2321
01:31:08,050 --> 01:31:10,610
bring up again just because of its importance,

2322
01:31:10,910 --> 01:31:13,090
or is there anything that running a business

2323
01:31:13,160 --> 01:31:14,960
like you have been doing and starting it

2324
01:31:14,970 --> 01:31:17,430
is something that anyone in similar

2325
01:31:17,510 --> 01:31:20,610
situations or not similar situations,

2326
01:31:20,720 --> 01:31:23,490
would you think benefit from hearing?

2327
01:31:24,670 --> 01:31:26,690
I think for me,

2328
01:31:28,510 --> 01:31:31,290
going in to make a product for a market

2329
01:31:31,360 --> 01:31:35,520
that already exists is a much better idea

2330
01:31:35,590 --> 01:31:38,070
than trying to create a market from scratch.

2331
01:31:39,210 --> 01:31:41,410
When Chase and I had a video

2332
01:31:41,450 --> 01:31:43,910
game audio company that made games,

2333
01:31:44,970 --> 01:31:48,010
we were trying to create a niche that was not

2334
01:31:48,050 --> 01:31:50,990
easy to market to or didn't already exist.

2335
01:31:51,160 --> 01:31:52,710
We did not have a million dollar

2336
01:31:52,740 --> 01:31:55,400
marketing budget and that did

2337
01:31:55,430 --> 01:31:57,310
not get the traction that this app has.

2338
01:31:57,380 --> 01:31:59,200
And my biggest takeaway from

2339
01:31:59,360 --> 01:32:01,560
those two years of our lives,

2340
01:32:01,600 --> 01:32:03,020
year and a half, whatever it was,

2341
01:32:03,480 --> 01:32:06,440
was next time we work on a product,

2342
01:32:06,600 --> 01:32:09,220
make sure that it's actually solving a need,

2343
01:32:09,600 --> 01:32:12,310
addressing an existing pain point

2344
01:32:12,460 --> 01:32:15,580
in a market that is easy to

2345
01:32:16,400 --> 01:32:19,940
connect to and get in contact with.

2346
01:32:20,130 --> 01:32:24,590
So I would recommend making sure that what

2347
01:32:24,620 --> 01:32:28,000
you're working on is valuable to somebody.

2348
01:32:28,110 --> 01:32:29,440
Doesn't have to be a lot of people,

2349
01:32:29,530 --> 01:32:30,980
doesn't have to be everybody.

2350
01:32:31,140 --> 01:32:35,110
But if you put it in front of 50 people

2351
01:32:35,240 --> 01:32:38,040
that you think it matters to them and

2352
01:32:40,900 --> 01:32:43,080
they need to understand why it matters

2353
01:32:43,170 --> 01:32:45,370
and be able to confirm that that

2354
01:32:45,400 --> 01:32:47,920
is something that they would pay for. Right.

2355
01:32:48,340 --> 01:32:49,920
That will help you determine if it's

2356
01:32:49,950 --> 01:32:52,120
worth putting the time and money into.

2357
01:32:54,820 --> 01:32:56,400
I'll just say really quick,

2358
01:32:57,860 --> 01:32:58,990
focus on the journey.

2359
01:32:59,040 --> 01:33:01,080
Learn from your mistakes. Be persistent.

2360
01:33:01,660 --> 01:33:03,440
Don't focus on the outcomes as much.

2361
01:33:03,490 --> 01:33:05,800
Focus on maximizing your chance of success.

2362
01:33:06,500 --> 01:33:07,600
That's all I got.

2363
01:33:08,700 --> 01:33:09,880
Take ownership.

2364
01:33:12,340 --> 01:33:13,550
There's a lot of wisdom in

2365
01:33:13,560 --> 01:33:14,740
the phrase discipline equals

2366
01:33:14,780 --> 01:33:16,720
freedom that I feel like I've.

2367
01:33:17,830 --> 01:33:19,250
When I learned that,

2368
01:33:19,440 --> 01:33:20,940
I think that opened a

2369
01:33:20,970 --> 01:33:23,690
lot of things that a lot of,

2370
01:33:23,840 --> 01:33:25,490
like those possible versions of

2371
01:33:25,520 --> 01:33:27,610
myself that Alex was talking about earlier,

2372
01:33:27,950 --> 01:33:31,770
I think that's one of those key turning points,

2373
01:33:31,840 --> 01:33:32,550
at least for me,

2374
01:33:32,590 --> 01:33:33,590
was kind of learning

2375
01:33:33,630 --> 01:33:37,490
to integrate that principle and go, okay,

2376
01:33:38,710 --> 01:33:39,810
this is useful.

2377
01:33:41,670 --> 01:33:43,980
Well, guys, this has been great. Thank

2378
01:33:44,010 --> 01:33:46,960
you so much for coming onto the podcast. Alex,

2379
01:33:47,010 --> 01:33:48,410
Chase and Jason,

2380
01:33:48,890 --> 01:33:50,870
how can people support you?

2381
01:33:50,920 --> 01:33:53,360
Find you and pick up Pocketbard so.

2382
01:33:53,390 --> 01:33:55,230
You can download Pocketbard on the Apple

2383
01:33:55,280 --> 01:33:58,320
app Store and Google Play Store. Coming

2384
01:33:58,390 --> 01:34:01,710
soon in beta to the Windows store as well,

2385
01:34:02,490 --> 01:34:04,380
which we just got our code

2386
01:34:04,390 --> 01:34:06,350
to go download at our dev version today.

2387
01:34:06,420 --> 01:34:07,350
So that's exciting.

2388
01:34:07,420 --> 01:34:08,090
Yes.

2389
01:34:08,250 --> 01:34:09,640
Nice. Congrats.

2390
01:34:09,790 --> 01:34:11,550
So you can just download the app,

2391
01:34:11,580 --> 01:34:12,980
share it with anybody you think would be.

2392
01:34:13,030 --> 01:34:14,340
It would be interested in it.

2393
01:34:14,430 --> 01:34:16,180
Lots of people use it. Some

2394
01:34:16,190 --> 01:34:18,190
of the coolest messages we get are from, like,

2395
01:34:18,240 --> 01:34:20,550
people using it to read their kids

2396
01:34:20,600 --> 01:34:23,150
stories as they're going to bed, or, you know,

2397
01:34:23,850 --> 01:34:26,470
kids like using it to torment

2398
01:34:26,520 --> 01:34:28,910
their siblings using the horror sounds.

2399
01:34:30,890 --> 01:34:33,000
So the, you know, it's.

2400
01:34:33,030 --> 01:34:34,830
It's an interactive audio app.

2401
01:34:34,860 --> 01:34:36,490
So if you want to dynamically

2402
01:34:36,570 --> 01:34:38,430
control soundscapes and audio,

2403
01:34:38,540 --> 01:34:39,480
just download the app,

2404
01:34:39,510 --> 01:34:40,700
give it a try. Like we said,

2405
01:34:40,710 --> 01:34:41,750
there's a lot of free content.

2406
01:34:41,840 --> 01:34:42,950
And if you like what we have

2407
01:34:42,980 --> 01:34:46,350
there and want to support us, subscribe.

2408
01:34:46,420 --> 01:34:47,710
That's super helpful.

2409
01:34:47,820 --> 01:34:50,110
So that's what helped us keep developing,

2410
01:34:50,160 --> 01:34:51,230
keep the app going.

2411
01:34:52,410 --> 01:34:55,630
You can find us on our social media, Instagram.

2412
01:34:55,680 --> 01:34:57,150
It's all just pocket barred.

2413
01:34:57,730 --> 01:34:58,830
We've hit the point where you

2414
01:34:58,840 --> 01:35:01,270
can just google it and you'll find it. So.

2415
01:35:01,460 --> 01:35:02,740
And just one more

2416
01:35:02,750 --> 01:35:04,460
shout out to our discord community.

2417
01:35:04,550 --> 01:35:05,440
That's where we tried to

2418
01:35:05,470 --> 01:35:07,570
host all of our community events.

2419
01:35:07,610 --> 01:35:08,640
We have awesome

2420
01:35:08,750 --> 01:35:10,750
moderators and discord managers there,

2421
01:35:10,800 --> 01:35:12,610
Dom and Zach. They're amazing.

2422
01:35:12,690 --> 01:35:15,680
Respond to people's feedback.

2423
01:35:15,730 --> 01:35:17,730
We try to be as active there as we can.

2424
01:35:18,470 --> 01:35:20,280
But, yeah, we post development updates

2425
01:35:20,330 --> 01:35:21,180
there and try

2426
01:35:21,210 --> 01:35:24,290
to just keep a lively, active community.

2427
01:35:24,380 --> 01:35:26,640
So if you want to get in contact with us,

2428
01:35:26,770 --> 01:35:28,170
that's probably the best place.

2429
01:35:28,990 --> 01:35:31,720
Awesome. Well, thank you so much, guys,

2430
01:35:31,770 --> 01:35:32,750
for joining us,

2431
01:35:32,790 --> 01:35:34,270
sharing your wisdom and your

2432
01:35:34,310 --> 01:35:35,760
journey and inspiring others

2433
01:35:35,810 --> 01:35:38,570
to pursue their neuropreneur journey.

2434
01:35:39,040 --> 01:35:40,820
And thanks for listening, everybody.

2435
01:35:40,910 --> 01:35:41,980
And as always,

2436
01:35:42,760 --> 01:35:44,060
keep it nerdy.

2437
01:36:02,960 --> 01:36:05,030
You just finished the shuttle class version

2438
01:36:05,060 --> 01:36:07,090
of this episode with Frank and Chris.

2439
01:36:07,220 --> 01:36:09,500
If you want to hear the galaxy class version,

2440
01:36:09,590 --> 01:36:11,230
go to patreon.com

2441
01:36:11,340 --> 01:36:12,700
nerdpreneur to become a member

2442
01:36:12,730 --> 01:36:15,220
of the awesome nerdpreneur board.

2443
01:36:16,800 --> 01:36:17,780
Thanks for listening,

2444
01:36:17,830 --> 01:36:19,760
and as always, keep it nerdy.