How Three Friends Created Pocket Bard, a Game Changing RPG Audio App - Interview 28

1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:02,130 You're listening to the shuttle class size 2 00:00:02,180 --> 00:00:04,410 version of this episode with Frank and Chris. 3 00:00:04,520 --> 00:00:07,250 To get access to the galaxy class size version, 4 00:00:07,300 --> 00:00:08,930 go to patreon.com 5 00:00:09,060 --> 00:00:10,380 nerdpreneur and become a 6 00:00:10,410 --> 00:00:13,050 member of the awesome nerdpreneur board. 7 00:00:15,190 --> 00:00:16,850 Now enjoy the episode. 8 00:01:41,730 --> 00:01:43,050 Welcome to Nerdpreneur, 9 00:01:43,100 --> 00:01:45,050 where we have fun conversations with people 10 00:01:45,100 --> 00:01:47,580 making money from their nerdy passion.

11 00:01:47,730 --> 00:01:49,390 My name is Chris, and as always, 12 00:01:49,460 --> 00:01:51,750 I'm joined by my co host, Frank. 13 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:52,630 Hello. 14 00:01:53,170 --> 00:01:56,260 And today we have three, count them up, 15 00:01:56,310 --> 00:01:58,950 three very special guests. 16 00:01:59,100 --> 00:02:00,230 They are the founders, 17 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:02,350 owners and leadership team 18 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:05,370 of a company called Pocket Bard.

19 00:02:05,490 --> 00:02:08,560 Their names are Alex Berner, Chase Harris, 20 00:02:08,630 --> 00:02:10,490 and Jason Kovalski. 21 00:02:10,530 --> 00:02:11,790 Welcome to the show, guys. 22 00:02:12,090 --> 00:02:12,800 Thanks for having me. 23 00:02:12,830 --> 00:02:13,130 Thank you.

24 00:02:13,170 --> 00:02:14,090 Thanks for having us. 25 00:02:14,210 --> 00:02:18,150 So, Pocket Bard, what is your nerdy passion? 26 00:02:18,970 --> 00:02:21,310 Interactive audio for tabletop gaming. 27 00:02:21,930 --> 00:02:25,080 Nice, nice.

Well, for all of our listeners 28 00:02:25,110 --> 00:02:28,140 who may not be in that space, what is that? 29 00:02:28,230 --> 00:02:31,310 What is interactive music? Or. Tell me more, 30 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:33,910 tell me more.

Tell us. Yeah. What is this? 31 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:37,670 So it's easiest to understand 32 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:40,370 by comparison with non interactive audio.

33 00:02:40,490 --> 00:02:42,820 So let's say you're playing a game of d and d, 34 00:02:42,950 --> 00:02:45,650 and you want to set the stage. 35 00:02:45,730 --> 00:02:46,960 So you open up your 36 00:02:46,990 --> 00:02:48,800 favorite streaming platform for music. 37 00:02:48,950 --> 00:02:50,010 You queue up a playlist 38 00:02:50,050 --> 00:02:51,760 that fits the mood perfectly. 39 00:02:51,830 --> 00:02:53,660 But as anybody who's played 40 00:02:53,710 --> 00:02:56,510 a tabletop game or a tabletop RPG, 41 00:02:56,640 --> 00:02:59,230 knows the mood changes.

42 00:02:59,380 --> 00:03:01,350 You go from scene to scene, 43 00:03:01,420 --> 00:03:04,830 from points of action to points of reflection, 44 00:03:04,980 --> 00:03:07,810 and you want that mood to change. And ideally, 45 00:03:07,930 --> 00:03:08,710 just like when you're 46 00:03:08,740 --> 00:03:10,160 watching a movie or something, 47 00:03:10,310 --> 00:03:11,800 the music and the atmosphere 48 00:03:11,850 --> 00:03:13,610 should change with the mood. 49 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:15,080 Well, if you're on 50 00:03:15,090 --> 00:03:16,280 your favorite streaming platform, 51 00:03:16,330 --> 00:03:17,610 as great as they are, 52 00:03:18,190 --> 00:03:20,290 there's some difficulty in changing that mood. 53 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:22,000 You got to go and find the right playlist.

54 00:03:22,050 --> 00:03:23,990 Maybe you have something curated beforehand. 55 00:03:24,030 --> 00:03:24,630 But even then, 56 00:03:24,670 --> 00:03:26,540 if you curate for every possible thing, 57 00:03:26,570 --> 00:03:27,350 that could happen, 58 00:03:27,470 --> 00:03:28,480 now you're talking about 59 00:03:28,570 --> 00:03:30,190 scrolling through different playlists, 60 00:03:30,310 --> 00:03:32,970 and that just gets heavy handed. Right? 61 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:35,050 So that's non interactive audio.

62 00:03:35,740 --> 00:03:37,380 We did was we took our 63 00:03:37,420 --> 00:03:40,720 experience in the game audio space. 64 00:03:40,850 --> 00:03:41,560 There's a whole lot 65 00:03:41,570 --> 00:03:43,880 of technology behind video game audio, 66 00:03:43,990 --> 00:03:47,000 and we said we can build something that lets 67 00:03:47,030 --> 00:03:50,760 you use all these adaptive strategies to 68 00:03:50,870 --> 00:03:54,320 make it easy at the table to switch the music, 69 00:03:54,410 --> 00:03:55,170 the sound effects, 70 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:58,130 the ambience to exactly what you need in the 71 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:01,120 moment with as little interaction as possible. 72 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:02,850 One button, click here, 73 00:04:03,230 --> 00:04:04,890 a little tweak of a slider there, 74 00:04:04,980 --> 00:04:05,670 and all of a sudden, 75 00:04:05,710 --> 00:04:06,760 the music is perfect and 76 00:04:06,770 --> 00:04:08,450 you can focus back in the game. 77 00:04:08,910 --> 00:04:11,620 Nice.

That's really helpful for, I think, 78 00:04:11,650 --> 00:04:12,490 people who may not know 79 00:04:12,540 --> 00:04:15,610 anything about what Pocket Bard does. 80 00:04:16,269 --> 00:04:18,180 And I want to clarify for people, 81 00:04:18,250 --> 00:04:19,579 this is an app, right? 82 00:04:19,649 --> 00:04:22,110 So you guys are a downloadable awesome app, 83 00:04:22,150 --> 00:04:24,290 and it basically for people 84 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:26,850 who maybe don't play tabletop RPG's, 85 00:04:27,650 --> 00:04:29,950 my layman's terms of this is it basically 86 00:04:30,020 --> 00:04:32,030 gives me the ability to play atmospheric 87 00:04:32,060 --> 00:04:34,570 music at any point in the game based 88 00:04:34,610 --> 00:04:37,050 on wherever these players want to go. 89 00:04:37,090 --> 00:04:40,100 So if I want to be in a tavern, I 90 00:04:40,110 --> 00:04:42,290 can find something that sounds like a taverny.

91 00:04:42,330 --> 00:04:44,220 And if I want to go to a place 92 00:04:44,270 --> 00:04:47,360 that's more of a chilling haunted house, 93 00:04:47,550 --> 00:04:49,570 I could be able to move into that 94 00:04:49,650 --> 00:04:53,000 atmosphere and have it become that while 95 00:04:53,030 --> 00:04:55,680 I describe what that actually looks like. 96 00:04:56,220 --> 00:04:57,070 And I 97 00:04:57,080 --> 00:04:59,380 looked through your app a bit, and, Frank, 98 00:04:59,420 --> 00:05:00,360 did you use the app? 99 00:05:00,470 --> 00:05:02,110 Did you do any homework for this or. 100 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:04,540 I actually have a bit of an anecdote 101 00:05:04,580 --> 00:05:07,220 about what Chase was just talking about.

Yeah, 102 00:05:07,260 --> 00:05:08,140 I heard about Pocket 103 00:05:08,180 --> 00:05:10,020 Bard a couple months ago, actually, 104 00:05:10,140 --> 00:05:12,520 it was an ad on Instagram that you guys had. 105 00:05:12,570 --> 00:05:14,680 Instagram has me figured out pretty good. 106 00:05:15,220 --> 00:05:16,700 That algorithm works for us. 107 00:05:16,780 --> 00:05:18,810 Yeah, only the ads, though.

108 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:21,020 The ads are nailed down. 109 00:05:21,150 --> 00:05:22,430 So your money was. 110 00:05:22,540 --> 00:05:24,730 Was well placed on that front. And.

111 00:05:24,820 --> 00:05:25,990 And it was funny because then, 112 00:05:26,020 --> 00:05:26,860 like a month later, 113 00:05:26,910 --> 00:05:30,230 Chris sent me this video from when you guys 114 00:05:30,260 --> 00:05:32,240 were at a trade show and I was like, Chris, 115 00:05:32,280 --> 00:05:33,430 I know about these guys. Like, 116 00:05:33,460 --> 00:05:34,300 what's your point? 117 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:36,860 I thought he was cool. 118 00:05:36,930 --> 00:05:38,390 Yeah.

I was like, oh, yeah, 119 00:05:38,420 --> 00:05:39,340 that's a great idea. 120 00:05:39,450 --> 00:05:41,100 So I had downloaded your app, 121 00:05:41,150 --> 00:05:43,220 and I had chase. 122 00:05:43,290 --> 00:05:46,761 You explained my pain point to a T. 123 00:05:46,770 --> 00:05:48,630 I have literally made a dozen 124 00:05:48,700 --> 00:05:51,310 plus podcasts or not podcasts, 125 00:05:51,420 --> 00:05:53,920 playlists with different music.

I was 126 00:05:53,950 --> 00:05:56,590 trying to pull them up. I have, like, suspense. 127 00:05:56,660 --> 00:05:57,790 D and D suspense. 128 00:05:57,860 --> 00:06:00,190 I have D and D exploration d 129 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:03,820 and d crafting d and d big boss battle.

130 00:06:03,870 --> 00:06:06,520 D and D smaller boss battle. You know, 131 00:06:06,550 --> 00:06:08,430 I had all of these playlists, 132 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:09,590 and it was just. 133 00:06:09,970 --> 00:06:11,390 It was a cool idea, 134 00:06:11,460 --> 00:06:13,270 but then I had to go out and also find 135 00:06:13,340 --> 00:06:15,110 the music because the other people who've 136 00:06:15,140 --> 00:06:17,660 created these playlists don't have the same 137 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:21,760 perspective that I do. 138 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:23,940 And so I wanted something very unique.

139 00:06:24,090 --> 00:06:26,300 So then when I discovered your guys's app, 140 00:06:26,350 --> 00:06:28,600 I just thought, my God, this is like, 141 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:30,990 where has this been? And you actually, 142 00:06:31,100 --> 00:06:32,600 what you said that was super interesting, 143 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:34,300 was that it was from video game tech, 144 00:06:34,350 --> 00:06:36,950 which makes so much sense. Did 145 00:06:36,980 --> 00:06:40,540 any of you guys work in video game, or did you? 146 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:43,590 Yeah.

So Chase and I, at the end of college, 147 00:06:43,660 --> 00:06:45,180 we were college roommates, 148 00:06:45,250 --> 00:06:48,700 and both in video game audio minors, 149 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:50,610 different sections of it. 150 00:06:50,620 --> 00:06:52,000 I was more in the music composition, 151 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:55,100 and Chase was more in the, like, audio design, 152 00:06:57,120 --> 00:06:59,270 but we had a good pairing of skills. 153 00:06:59,300 --> 00:07:01,200 So right towards the end of college, 154 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:02,520 we decided to start a video game. 155 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:05,810 Audio company got pretty sidetracked, 156 00:07:05,860 --> 00:07:07,180 started making games 157 00:07:07,250 --> 00:07:09,500 instead of audio for games.

158 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:11,800 Had a lot of experiences there, 159 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:13,820 which will inform a lot of some of, like, 160 00:07:13,850 --> 00:07:15,380 a lot of our takeaways, I think, 161 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:17,190 for future questions 162 00:07:17,220 --> 00:07:19,160 when we're talking about business, but, yeah. 163 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:21,030 So there was a few years there 164 00:07:21,060 --> 00:07:22,930 where we were really focused on 165 00:07:23,100 --> 00:07:26,500 creating interactive audio for games. Right. 166 00:07:26,530 --> 00:07:29,090 Like looking for indie games to score, 167 00:07:29,220 --> 00:07:29,980 stuff like that.

168 00:07:30,010 --> 00:07:31,710 So that's where our expertise came, 169 00:07:31,780 --> 00:07:34,850 and we were kind of at a lull of stuff we 170 00:07:34,860 --> 00:07:38,300 were working on and basically just got 171 00:07:38,370 --> 00:07:41,460 this idea and been working on it ever since. 172 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:45,280 Yeah, it's a really good solution. And I 173 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:49,050 did use it in one game not too long ago, 174 00:07:49,140 --> 00:07:52,110 I downloaded the ship packet, 175 00:07:52,220 --> 00:07:54,490 the nautical ship themed one, 176 00:07:54,620 --> 00:07:55,960 and it was very fun. 177 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:57,570 And one of the things I really loved about it, 178 00:07:57,580 --> 00:07:59,170 because I've used some of the 179 00:07:59,220 --> 00:08:02,020 older programs that are out there, 180 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:05,540 respect to them and them kind of paving 181 00:08:05,570 --> 00:08:07,790 the way as they did over those years.

182 00:08:07,970 --> 00:08:10,590 But I always had to mess with them. 183 00:08:10,630 --> 00:08:12,040 I always had to correct them. 184 00:08:12,090 --> 00:08:13,500 Something would go wrong. 185 00:08:13,690 --> 00:08:16,090 But the cool thing was, with pocket Bard, 186 00:08:16,870 --> 00:08:19,060 I totally got to forget about it, 187 00:08:19,090 --> 00:08:20,600 and I set the intensity.

188 00:08:20,690 --> 00:08:22,410 I would every now and then add some sound 189 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:24,530 effects like the weather and ambiance, 190 00:08:24,870 --> 00:08:26,370 but it was great and 191 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:28,040 the players very much enjoyed it. 192 00:08:28,130 --> 00:08:28,960 What stood out to me was 193 00:08:28,970 --> 00:08:31,240 how simple it was for an app, because, I mean, 194 00:08:31,250 --> 00:08:31,980 when people have an app, 195 00:08:32,010 --> 00:08:34,220 I'm always like, seriously, all right, 196 00:08:34,270 --> 00:08:36,260 I gotta go download this thing. And then 197 00:08:36,309 --> 00:08:38,210 getting into an app, it's like, frustrating, 198 00:08:38,260 --> 00:08:40,409 usually that kind of thing. I was like, 199 00:08:40,500 --> 00:08:43,260 in and playing music within like a few, 200 00:08:43,309 --> 00:08:43,900 like a minute.

201 00:08:43,929 --> 00:08:46,470 It was really actually quite impressive. 202 00:08:46,540 --> 00:08:48,170 And you had, it was like, okay, 203 00:08:48,180 --> 00:08:48,790 the app came up, 204 00:08:48,820 --> 00:08:49,880 told me exactly what to do, 205 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:50,750 and I didn't have to pay 206 00:08:50,780 --> 00:08:52,220 anything either to actually 207 00:08:52,310 --> 00:08:54,370 start testing the product and using it. 208 00:08:54,380 --> 00:08:57,120 So there's free music on there when you start. 209 00:08:57,240 --> 00:08:58,610 That is decent, good.

210 00:08:58,660 --> 00:08:59,910 And you can actually implement into 211 00:08:59,940 --> 00:09:01,530 your game and not just like one track. 212 00:09:01,580 --> 00:09:03,460 And then you try to upsell me to, like, 213 00:09:03,510 --> 00:09:05,810 every other track, there's like a. A 214 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:07,420 bunch of different dozen different atmospheres 215 00:09:07,460 --> 00:09:09,300 that I can select from. I still, like, 216 00:09:09,340 --> 00:09:11,750 put campfire overlaid onto things.

Like, 217 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:12,560 it was a great 218 00:09:12,690 --> 00:09:14,720 experience just from that standpoint. 219 00:09:14,770 --> 00:09:17,110 So this leads into my questing, and we're 220 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:18,450 going to get into some business stuff here. 221 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:19,200 Cause I know you guys 222 00:09:19,250 --> 00:09:21,360 like to get to that streamlined. 223 00:09:21,550 --> 00:09:22,720 I want to just say, like, 224 00:09:22,790 --> 00:09:25,740 you guys have a rating on your.

225 00:09:25,860 --> 00:09:26,410 You have pretty 226 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:29,590 good ratings on your app already, like 4.3 227 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:31,720 with 1000 some odd votes. You have, like, 228 00:09:31,750 --> 00:09:35,050 248 reviews on the Apple podcast 229 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:38,800 on the Apple Store with 4.8 rating. Like, 230 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:39,940 this is good. Like, 231 00:09:39,990 --> 00:09:41,350 this is really solid 232 00:09:41,460 --> 00:09:44,060 amount of traction with your app.

233 00:09:44,150 --> 00:09:46,890 So I'm curious, 234 00:09:46,980 --> 00:09:48,670 where do you start when you're built? Like, 235 00:09:48,700 --> 00:09:51,520 when did you guys get into building an 236 00:09:51,560 --> 00:09:53,980 app and how did that come out to be, like, your 237 00:09:54,030 --> 00:09:56,740 business idea and how does that get started? 238 00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:03,170 So I was late to tabletop rpg's. Now, 239 00:10:03,340 --> 00:10:05,230 I love tabletop rpg's.

240 00:10:05,420 --> 00:10:07,770 I play D and D with my wife every week, 241 00:10:07,900 --> 00:10:09,620 and I love it, 242 00:10:09,790 --> 00:10:11,780 but that wasn't always me. 243 00:10:11,950 --> 00:10:15,640 And I think it was 2018 when I played 244 00:10:15,680 --> 00:10:19,010 my very first game of D and D and 245 00:10:19,180 --> 00:10:21,040 immediately fell in love with the experience. 246 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:22,450 I roped my wife in, 247 00:10:22,500 --> 00:10:23,800 roped some other friends in, 248 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:26,340 and we had this incredible guy who 249 00:10:26,350 --> 00:10:29,670 was dming for us who he knew how to 250 00:10:29,700 --> 00:10:31,710 tailor the experience for what we wanted. 251 00:10:31,820 --> 00:10:33,200 And I'm talking, 252 00:10:33,270 --> 00:10:34,480 he had miniatures, 253 00:10:34,570 --> 00:10:35,800 he had terrains, 254 00:10:35,950 --> 00:10:38,680 he was doing all this voice acting, 255 00:10:38,770 --> 00:10:40,720 and he had music playing.

256 00:10:40,890 --> 00:10:42,360 But then there were these moments 257 00:10:42,410 --> 00:10:45,240 that I kept noticing of the action 258 00:10:45,290 --> 00:10:47,580 would change and he would say, all right, 259 00:10:47,620 --> 00:10:48,690 role for initiative. 260 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:52,050 And things would kind of pause and even 261 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:53,990 the experienced players around the table, 262 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:55,920 the pace kind of lulled, 263 00:10:55,970 --> 00:10:57,170 and people would take 264 00:10:57,200 --> 00:10:59,180 out their phones and check Twitter. 265 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:03,060 And I was like, what's happening? Well, 266 00:11:03,190 --> 00:11:04,820 he's back behind the DM screen, 267 00:11:04,910 --> 00:11:06,340 heads down in his laptop, 268 00:11:06,430 --> 00:11:07,830 picking a new playlist.

269 00:11:08,210 --> 00:11:10,880 And then eventually, oh, okay, 270 00:11:10,910 --> 00:11:12,030 the cool music started great, 271 00:11:12,060 --> 00:11:13,830 and we're back into it. And, you know, 272 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:16,580 that was not the end of 273 00:11:16,590 --> 00:11:18,710 the world as far as an experience went. 274 00:11:18,860 --> 00:11:20,990 But after having that a couple 275 00:11:21,020 --> 00:11:22,870 of times and having some conversations, 276 00:11:23,210 --> 00:11:25,390 I kind of said to him, 277 00:11:25,580 --> 00:11:27,200 how would you like if I built 278 00:11:27,230 --> 00:11:29,070 you an app where all that work 279 00:11:29,100 --> 00:11:33,770 you're doing that takes you 45, 60, 90 seconds? 280 00:11:33,890 --> 00:11:34,750 What if that was one 281 00:11:34,780 --> 00:11:36,380 button click or two button clicks?

282 00:11:36,470 --> 00:11:37,640 And we kind of talked 283 00:11:37,670 --> 00:11:39,030 a little bit about what he would need? 284 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:40,710 And then I brought the idea to Alex, 285 00:11:40,780 --> 00:11:42,790 and we just blossomed from there 286 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:44,780 about how do we make this experience 287 00:11:44,910 --> 00:11:47,390 a lot easier and build it into this 288 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:50,330 interface that we're able to construct? 289 00:11:50,490 --> 00:11:52,090 We're familiar with. 290 00:11:52,270 --> 00:11:53,760 Everybody's got their 291 00:11:53,790 --> 00:11:55,520 smartphones at the table anyway.

292 00:11:56,340 --> 00:11:59,760 And so that was the origin of the idea 293 00:11:59,890 --> 00:12:03,030 and why that design philosophy of making 294 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:05,720 this thing the easiest possible thing to use, 295 00:12:05,790 --> 00:12:08,390 so that you don't repeat that experience 296 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:12,400 of being heads down for too long as a DM, 297 00:12:13,100 --> 00:12:14,590 that really informs 298 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:16,800 everything we've done thus far. 299 00:12:17,420 --> 00:12:19,880 Totally kills the momentum when people do that. 300 00:12:20,250 --> 00:12:21,070 And in the end, 301 00:12:21,100 --> 00:12:22,700 there's thousands and thousands 302 00:12:22,710 --> 00:12:25,440 of hours of amazing audio out there, right? 303 00:12:25,470 --> 00:12:27,470 There's dozens of films, 304 00:12:28,370 --> 00:12:29,730 more than dozens of 305 00:12:29,770 --> 00:12:31,700 film scores that are incredible, 306 00:12:31,790 --> 00:12:33,960 been recorded by professional orchestras, 307 00:12:34,030 --> 00:12:35,830 with professional mix engineers.

308 00:12:36,850 --> 00:12:38,730 There's incredible audio out there. 309 00:12:38,850 --> 00:12:40,510 What we're offering really 310 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:42,890 is just a comprehensive solution. 311 00:12:43,010 --> 00:12:43,760 It's the tool, 312 00:12:43,830 --> 00:12:45,870 it's the delivery of it. 313 00:12:47,070 --> 00:12:48,280 The goal is to save people 314 00:12:48,330 --> 00:12:49,740 time and attention because in the end, 315 00:12:49,770 --> 00:12:51,670 those are such limited resources, 316 00:12:51,830 --> 00:12:54,710 especially when you're already in a session 317 00:12:54,750 --> 00:12:57,730 where you have basically two to 8 hours, 318 00:12:57,780 --> 00:12:59,570 who knows how long people's sessions are?

319 00:12:59,680 --> 00:13:02,000 But that amount of time to deliver 320 00:13:02,130 --> 00:13:04,570 a great experience to your players, 321 00:13:04,740 --> 00:13:09,030 and if even 5% of that is bogged down 322 00:13:09,150 --> 00:13:11,350 by the kind of stuff chase was saying, 323 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:12,870 searching for stuff, 324 00:13:13,210 --> 00:13:15,430 trying to figure out what to do in real time, 325 00:13:16,370 --> 00:13:17,870 that's a long time. 326 00:13:18,020 --> 00:13:20,920 That's maybe half an hour when 327 00:13:20,950 --> 00:13:24,040 you add it up over a long session. So 328 00:13:24,110 --> 00:13:27,790 we're offering a time saver, attention saver, 329 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:29,510 so you can focus more on the game 330 00:13:30,570 --> 00:13:33,310 and just really focusing on. 331 00:13:33,890 --> 00:13:35,670 We've been trying to establish kind of like 332 00:13:35,700 --> 00:13:39,730 company philosophies that we adhere to, 333 00:13:39,850 --> 00:13:42,910 and these generally evolve naturally.

334 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:44,270 And one of them that I'm always 335 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:46,800 referencing is product first right? 336 00:13:46,910 --> 00:13:48,630 If it doesn't serve the product, 337 00:13:49,690 --> 00:13:50,550 we need to be really 338 00:13:50,580 --> 00:13:53,230 careful about doing it right. Like, 339 00:13:53,340 --> 00:13:54,890 is this making the app better? 340 00:13:55,010 --> 00:13:57,930 Is this making the customer experience better?

341 00:13:58,090 --> 00:13:59,740 Is this improving the UI? 342 00:13:59,790 --> 00:14:00,710 Is it making. 343 00:14:00,860 --> 00:14:02,570 Is this an extra button? Click?

Like, 344 00:14:02,610 --> 00:14:05,680 we've been very deliberate about every little 345 00:14:05,730 --> 00:14:09,010 design choice we've made with conceptualizing. 346 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:11,880 When somebody's setting up a scene, 347 00:14:12,660 --> 00:14:13,860 what are they thinking of first? 348 00:14:13,900 --> 00:14:14,930 Are they thinking mood? 349 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:16,680 Are they thinking music?

350 00:14:16,770 --> 00:14:17,940 Are they thinking? 351 00:14:18,100 --> 00:14:19,120 What is their imagination? 352 00:14:19,190 --> 00:14:20,080 How are they crafting it? 353 00:14:20,090 --> 00:14:22,010 And how can we best adhere 354 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:23,920 and replicate that in the app to 355 00:14:23,950 --> 00:14:26,560 make it as user friendly as possible?

356 00:14:27,740 --> 00:14:31,090 We also view the app as never done right. Like, 357 00:14:31,130 --> 00:14:31,890 we're trying to get 358 00:14:31,930 --> 00:14:33,520 those ratings up higher and higher. 359 00:14:33,590 --> 00:14:35,070 We're trying to improve everything. 360 00:14:36,130 --> 00:14:38,210 When we find a better solution to do something, 361 00:14:38,290 --> 00:14:40,000 we'll probably do that.

362 00:14:40,190 --> 00:14:43,110 Right? We're not resting on our current design. 363 00:14:43,260 --> 00:14:45,370 We did a post recently on Instagram 364 00:14:45,530 --> 00:14:47,510 that showed all the design iterations 365 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:49,550 of the app. There's been, like, seven, 366 00:14:49,970 --> 00:14:52,270 and I'm sure there'll be many more.

367 00:14:52,850 --> 00:14:55,840 So you're talking about the pathing the 368 00:14:55,950 --> 00:14:58,920 user experience to better suit the app. 369 00:14:58,970 --> 00:15:01,320 And then you were talking about 370 00:15:01,410 --> 00:15:03,440 all the different iterations you've had. 371 00:15:03,740 --> 00:15:07,920 How long have you been working on this app? 372 00:15:07,950 --> 00:15:09,400 To get to this point?

373 00:15:10,620 --> 00:15:14,480 We started in August 2019 and 374 00:15:15,060 --> 00:15:19,400 had a bit of a lull in the COVID times, 375 00:15:21,060 --> 00:15:24,720 but have been going really, like, 376 00:15:24,750 --> 00:15:29,260 focused really hard on it since. Jason, 377 00:15:29,380 --> 00:15:30,650 when did you come on. It was like, 378 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:31,400 when you came on. 379 00:15:31,450 --> 00:15:34,630 That's when we all really got to work.

380 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:37,760 I think it was around 2021, the COVID period. 381 00:15:37,830 --> 00:15:40,400 Right. Or maybe shortly after that. I forgot.

382 00:15:41,140 --> 00:15:42,300 Yeah, I think so. 383 00:15:42,460 --> 00:15:43,960 But we first released 384 00:15:44,340 --> 00:15:45,820 like a year and a half ago, I think. 385 00:15:45,860 --> 00:15:46,160 Right. 386 00:15:46,230 --> 00:15:47,720 Or has it been two years?

Almost. 387 00:15:49,230 --> 00:15:49,660 Wow. 388 00:15:49,730 --> 00:15:51,160 Yeah, it's almost two years. 389 00:15:51,210 --> 00:15:52,890 Two years in beta.

Yeah. 390 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:55,330 And a year in out of beta. 391 00:15:55,990 --> 00:15:59,020 So, Jason, what is your role? We haven't 392 00:15:59,050 --> 00:16:00,740 had a chance to hear from you yet.

393 00:16:00,930 --> 00:16:02,440 How do you play a part in this team? 394 00:16:02,490 --> 00:16:06,810 Yeah. So I am mostly on the technology side. 395 00:16:07,230 --> 00:16:09,470 I've known both of them for a long time now, 396 00:16:09,510 --> 00:16:11,290 like almost a decade now.

397 00:16:11,710 --> 00:16:13,930 I grew up with Alex in upstate New York. 398 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:16,380 We went to middle school, high school together, 399 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:17,570 and we both ended 400 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:20,400 up going to college here in Boston, where I am. 401 00:16:21,420 --> 00:16:23,760 And then I actually also met Chase around. 402 00:16:24,300 --> 00:16:27,630 Was it freshman year, I think.

Oh, yeah, 403 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:30,040 because I got your roommates then. Yeah, 404 00:16:30,150 --> 00:16:32,610 but, yeah, I mean, we. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 405 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,350 So I was a business major 406 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:37,360 and then pivoted to software engineering, 407 00:16:37,860 --> 00:16:39,550 got a job out of college.

408 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:40,720 And then these 409 00:16:40,750 --> 00:16:42,230 guys came to me and said, you know, 410 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:43,290 we're working on this app. 411 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:44,360 Maybe you can help. 412 00:16:44,500 --> 00:16:45,630 So that's when I kind of 413 00:16:45,700 --> 00:16:47,680 part time started to work on it, 414 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:48,600 and at that point, 415 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:50,450 I had no idea where this would go. Honestly, 416 00:16:50,500 --> 00:16:51,420 I was just, like, 417 00:16:51,530 --> 00:16:53,520 happy to help out wherever I could.

418 00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:55,920 So weeknights or weekends, 419 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:56,660 whenever I could find, 420 00:16:56,710 --> 00:16:57,720 scrape away some time, 421 00:16:57,800 --> 00:16:58,940 I would work on this. 422 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:01,430 And then the last year, 423 00:17:01,460 --> 00:17:03,460 we've just been getting so much traction, 424 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:05,150 and I've been spending more 425 00:17:05,180 --> 00:17:08,180 and more time on pocket Bard. And actually, 426 00:17:08,310 --> 00:17:10,750 the start of this year, January 1, 427 00:17:10,819 --> 00:17:11,829 I decided to quit my 428 00:17:11,859 --> 00:17:13,660 day job and come on full time. 429 00:17:14,940 --> 00:17:17,310 So, yeah, very, very happy and 430 00:17:17,319 --> 00:17:18,560 grateful that I got to do that.

431 00:17:18,589 --> 00:17:20,450 Yeah, you made the leap. 432 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:21,300 Yeah. Yeah. 433 00:17:21,420 --> 00:17:22,720 Congratulations, man.

434 00:17:22,790 --> 00:17:23,440 Yeah. 435 00:17:24,300 --> 00:17:25,210 Were Alex and 436 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:27,560 Chase already full time in this? Was 437 00:17:27,589 --> 00:17:31,080 this already your full time gig? Yeah, yeah.

438 00:17:31,230 --> 00:17:32,070 So we didn't get 439 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:34,410 to hear what your roles are. I know he's. 440 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:35,990 Jason's born in the tech side and 441 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:37,180 helped with a lot of that development, 442 00:17:37,260 --> 00:17:39,120 but what were you guys doing? 443 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:40,690 Or what are your roles now?

444 00:17:42,710 --> 00:17:44,520 So I started out. 445 00:17:44,610 --> 00:17:46,360 When Chase first came to me with this idea, 446 00:17:46,410 --> 00:17:47,810 I was mainly the composer, right. 447 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:49,970 So I wrote the music, 448 00:17:50,470 --> 00:17:52,250 generated the audio assets, 449 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:54,880 and kind of split just the 450 00:17:55,050 --> 00:17:56,610 design and figuring everything 451 00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:59,640 else out that we had to do 50 50, I guess. 452 00:17:59,770 --> 00:18:02,210 And then back when we started 453 00:18:03,550 --> 00:18:06,430 being more like Jason came on and 454 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:08,370 we started operating more like a business, 455 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:11,030 I realized it would be helpful to 456 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:12,680 have somebody just kind of take on the 457 00:18:12,730 --> 00:18:15,070 business leadership part of it.

Right? Like, 458 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:18,040 get paperwork filed, keep, you know, 459 00:18:18,110 --> 00:18:19,400 do our bookkeeping, 460 00:18:20,820 --> 00:18:24,840 keep an overall kind of 461 00:18:25,780 --> 00:18:27,830 view of the business strategy at all times, 462 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:29,520 making sure everything's working together. 463 00:18:29,670 --> 00:18:31,970 So I kind of leaped into that role. 464 00:18:32,170 --> 00:18:33,750 I just pitched it to Jason.

465 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:34,900 Jason just wrote 466 00:18:34,910 --> 00:18:37,070 up a long message one day. I was like, hey, 467 00:18:37,120 --> 00:18:39,010 so I think we need to move faster, 468 00:18:39,130 --> 00:18:40,820 and I think if I just kind 469 00:18:40,830 --> 00:18:42,250 of step into this role and help 470 00:18:42,290 --> 00:18:44,070 keep everything on track and organized, 471 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:45,040 that'll be helpful. 472 00:18:45,110 --> 00:18:47,150 You guys can focus more on what you're doing. 473 00:18:48,050 --> 00:18:49,230 So since then, 474 00:18:49,340 --> 00:18:52,190 I've been the CEO role as well, 475 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:53,270 although I hate saying 476 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:55,280 that because of all the connotations, 477 00:18:55,390 --> 00:18:57,590 but it's what I do.

478 00:18:57,670 --> 00:18:59,630 So composer 50% of the time, 479 00:18:59,700 --> 00:19:02,340 CEO 50% of the time, and 480 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:08,390 design app design as a team that we all. 481 00:19:08,420 --> 00:19:10,060 Do just kind of wear many hats. 482 00:19:10,110 --> 00:19:11,860 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 483 00:19:11,970 --> 00:19:12,910 It sounds like you guys 484 00:19:12,940 --> 00:19:15,380 are jumping around a dynamic team, for sure, 48