Is PAX West Great for Nerdy Businesses? - Talking Nerdy 34

Show Transcript

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Chris, what are we talking about today?

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PAX West,

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the reflections and experience

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we had there just a couple of weeks ago.

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Yeah, we spoke to a bunch of different

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Nerdpreneurs at their booths,

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and we got five minute interviews with them,

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and we're going to be

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releasing that content bit by bit.

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It's really good stuff,

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and I kind of want us to just dive into it.

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What would be your number

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one takeaway from those interviews?

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One of the consistent things I heard

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from each and every one of them was,

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you really need

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to understand the business side.

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Nerd passion isn't just enough. You know,

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one of the things that they all said

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was they figured out, you know, their passion.

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They loved this hobby,

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they loved this thing that was nerdy.

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But then when they got into it,

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they realized it was all the

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business stuff that was holding

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them back from success as a business,

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and they had to go to work on that,

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not only on that problem,

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but also themselves to be those entrepreneurs

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that actually could succeed in business.

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And so it was a lot more than

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just passion and being a nerd

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that allowed them to be successful.

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That was the biggest takeaway, I thought,

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from the whole event.

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Who is someone that said that?

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Who's someone that stands out

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to you as really championing that point?

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Well, you know who it is. Chris. Like,

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it was Chris from.

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And that's not me, by the way.

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I know my name is Chris,

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but we met another Chris from Tinkerhouse, who,

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on his video,

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he definitely talked a little bit about that.

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But then it was like he took us back

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behind their booth and we chatted

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with him for another 20 or 30 minutes

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about his entrepreneurial journey from, like,

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years of back selling. Like various. Like,

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he was in liquor sales for a while,

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he was in other import business type stuff,

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and he was.

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He recommended to

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not get into the liquor business.

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Yeah, yeah, exactly right. So there was a lot

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of things that he had in terms of experience

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around business before he wound up in

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Tinkerhouse doing the thing that he does now,

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which is create terrain for tabletop

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war games and now Tabletop RPG's as well.

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So I think he was

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the one who exemplified it the most.

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Cause we got to spend the most time with him,

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and he really talked a lot about it.

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I could tell he just had a passion,

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a serious passion for business,

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not just nerdy tabletop stuff.

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Yeah. Chris was a wonderful

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person to speak with, and he also.

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One of the common themes I

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noticed from everybody we spoke

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to was everyone was kind of tired. I mean,

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it was the second day of Pax,

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day two of four.

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And these kind of conventions,

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for people who go to conventions,

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they know, like, it's exhausting.

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Even just being at a booth, especially,

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you're there constantly talking to people,

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saying a lot of the same things.

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And even though these

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people that we spoke to were tired,

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they were still very

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passionate about what they were doing,

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and they were really happy to talk about it,

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even if you could see on their face, like,

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sometimes it seemed, you know,

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we spoke to many worlds,

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many worlds tavern founder Andrew,

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and he was, he was,

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he was a little worn out.

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He had a big team with him.

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He had a lot going on,

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but he still even gave good advice about,

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if you're going to start something,

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just be aware of what you're doing.

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And this point

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you're talking about with Chris, you know,

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even though he was tired,

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he still was just so

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happy to help and talk about it.

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Everybody was really nice.

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Everybody was very warm and

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inviting and excited to

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talk about the idea of nerdy business.

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And I think that they were also

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surprised that we're kind of the first

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people to really take interest in, like, how

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do you be successful in this nerdy business?

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So I want to know, like,

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what was your number one takeaway from

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this pax event and the interviews we did?

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Frank Ooh.

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Along the same lines of what

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you said about knowing the business side,

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except it's more so knowing your capacity,

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knowing your fortitude, like,

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what are you capable of?

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And knowing that you

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need to be capable of a lot. And Patrick,

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from lethal shadows, minis,

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he elaborated on it really nicely,

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but you need to be prepared

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for what it's going to take. It's going, he,

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he laid out for himself. He said,

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we've been at this for five, six years,

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going really strong.

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I haven't had a vacation in that time.

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My family knows that.

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If you're going to want to hang out with me,

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you either come to a convention,

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you come to the shop,

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that's where you find me,

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that's where you spend time with me,

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because I'm working so hard on this.

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And people who want to start their

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nerdy business need to be ready

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to spend that kind of commitment.

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And it's an extreme example in some ways,

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because there is, you know, this is,

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I think there's a spectrum here of how much

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you want to commit to your nerdy business.

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But he is bringing this

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all in or nothing mentality.

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And I think it's good to hear that, because

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there are some nerdpreneurs that are nerdy,

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believe it or not.

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And nerds can get very committed.

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They go all in on this thing.

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I want to push back on something here because

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I think it's interesting what you said around,

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or maybe just have a discussion around it,

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because what you said there was that people

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have to really know their capacity or

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they have to know what it's going to take.

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And I think, yes,

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in some capacity you do. I agree. However,

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I want to push back on the idea of knowing

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what you can take because I think vastly,

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people underestimate what

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they're capable of most of the time.

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And I think also that when they jump

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into something like this with real passion,

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they should expect to have to

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sacrifice certain things for sure time.

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And sometimes they might have less

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time with family or loved ones or to

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play the game that they actually love. Right.

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How many times have we heard from

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people who are nerdpreneurs who are like,

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I don't play much d and D anymore,

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or I don't really do a

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lot of video gaming any more products.

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For it, but I don't play very much.

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Yeah. So I think that is something

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that people should be aware of, is

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that you do and you should expect to sacrifice,

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but that's not why they're doing it.

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And I don't want people to listen to what

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you just said there and think, well, then, man,

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I'm better off being

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a nerd instead of a nerdpreneur.

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Because I think that when they hear that,

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that can be very,

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that can be jarring to people who

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are thinking about actually doing this. Like,

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and I don't think that

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that's why you're listening to this.

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You want to hear, oh,

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it's going to be hard.

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It's going to be like,

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it is going to be hard, sure.

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But everything is hard. So, you know, things

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that are worthwhile are hard and challenging.

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And I want to say that there's

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a lot of reasons why people

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who are there are doing it. And, yeah,

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some of them were tired at the con,

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but also they weren't, like,

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collapsing and terrible.

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Like that guy we met with.

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At the end of the day,

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he was tired because it was

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literally end of a twelve hour day.

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That was the only time we could get him.

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Yeah. And I weren't disheartened.

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They were just,

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their energy levels were low.

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They were still very passionate.

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Yeah. And the other thing, too, is like,

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they're sacrificing because

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of their passion for the hobby. And, you know,

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it was Patrick. Right,

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you were talking about. Mm hmm.

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And Patrick is so passionate about

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bringing great models to his game.

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And the way he talks about it

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is that we deserve this in our hobby.

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So there's a reason that's driving

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him at that level to go that

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deep and do what he's doing because,

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and also he's doing very well.

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I want to put that in there, too,

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that you might say, wow,

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it's going to be a lot of work.

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And like that he's not

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just scraping by a little bit.

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I think he's probably really crushing

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it right now as a nerdy entrepreneur,

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and he sees the vast and important opportunity

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in front of him that he has an opportunity

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to seize and he's going after it. So, yeah,

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it might be hard,

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but it's a sacrifice he knows he's making.

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I think he would agree with me is that

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he's making so that he can have that

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freedom and that positioning and that

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incredible part in the market down the road.

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Yeah, there is some of that.

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I will push back that they are saying to

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don't get into this if

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you're not willing for the sacrifice,

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if you're not willing to make the sacrifices,

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if you're not willing to

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really go in it for the long haul. Now,

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a couple things on that,

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going back to Randall at Catalyst game Labs.

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He was saying when you asked him about

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what would you tell people who are looking

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to work for their dream company? He said,

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I would say don't run as far as you

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can as quickly as you can, was his response.

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And then he followed up with,

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but if you don't run

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away and you really want to do it,

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then I will help you.

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I will do my best to help you, but

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it is a lot of hard work. And I think, I mean,

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he said he's been doing it since the nineties,

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so we're talking 20 years. Uh,

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20 plus years, actually,

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25 ish and 25 plus.

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And he was very supportive,

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but he'd seen a lot, I think.

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I think he'd seen a lot of people.

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He's been on a small team, small company,

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and they have probably

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seen a lot of people come and go.

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It's a bit of a revolving door.

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And I think that also Patrick,

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in the same vein,

273
00:09:57,800 --> 00:09:59,200
has seen the same thing, because

274
00:09:59,270 --> 00:10:02,440
he was talking about what's really important.

275
00:10:03,140 --> 00:10:05,280
What's really important is

276
00:10:05,310 --> 00:10:08,270
for people to stick to their word.

277
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Don't go into this

278
00:10:10,060 --> 00:10:12,970
nerdy business idea and think that, oh,

279
00:10:13,010 --> 00:10:14,810
I can treat this nerdy business

280
00:10:14,890 --> 00:10:16,960
like I treat my nerdy hobby.

281
00:10:17,070 --> 00:10:18,750
That's the same genre.

282
00:10:18,900 --> 00:10:19,920
If you play

283
00:10:20,030 --> 00:10:23,220
any tabletop role playing games, dear listener,

284
00:10:23,310 --> 00:10:24,490
you know that sometimes

285
00:10:24,530 --> 00:10:26,350
people just flake on showing up,

286
00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:27,400
and it's like last

287
00:10:27,470 --> 00:10:29,350
minute and it's super frustrating,

288
00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:31,520
and they don't take it very seriously.

289
00:10:31,670 --> 00:10:34,790
But that's what Patrick was warning.

290
00:10:34,980 --> 00:10:35,720
He was saying,

291
00:10:35,790 --> 00:10:37,530
if there are people

292
00:10:37,650 --> 00:10:38,990
who want to start a business,

293
00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:41,390
they can't treat it with the same mentality

294
00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:43,470
that they treat that nerdy passion.

295
00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:45,450
They need to be reliable,

296
00:10:45,570 --> 00:10:49,000
they need to be helpful. And furthermore,

297
00:10:49,070 --> 00:10:49,670
he was saying,

298
00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:51,000
when you get into it,

299
00:10:51,150 --> 00:10:52,910
you really got to know your goal.

300
00:10:53,060 --> 00:10:54,630
Why are you starting?

301
00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:56,670
Why are you starting this business

302
00:10:57,490 --> 00:11:00,190
and plan to get there?

303
00:11:00,940 --> 00:11:03,880
One of the reasons we're doing what we're doing

304
00:11:04,460 --> 00:11:07,490
is so that those of you who are looking to

305
00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:10,810
do this don't have as hard a time as these

306
00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:15,030
pioneers in the nerdpreneur industry. Yeah,

307
00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:17,730
I've seen it in other business that the

308
00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:20,610
people who are in business for five years know

309
00:11:20,680 --> 00:11:23,150
more than people who are just starting off,

310
00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:25,280
and people who are in business

311
00:11:25,350 --> 00:11:27,130
for ten years know more than

312
00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:29,080
those people who are five years in.

313
00:11:29,270 --> 00:11:30,500
There are these people who.

314
00:11:30,620 --> 00:11:32,240
There are people that you learn from,

315
00:11:32,350 --> 00:11:33,520
who become mentors,

316
00:11:33,610 --> 00:11:35,450
or that you hear what they've done,

317
00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:38,080
or you model their success and it shrinks

318
00:11:38,110 --> 00:11:40,870
the amount of time you need to get to that

319
00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:43,080
next level or to have the success they had.

320
00:11:43,170 --> 00:11:46,620
They're not any different in terms of anything

321
00:11:46,660 --> 00:11:49,910
but their capacity or their strategy. You know,

322
00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:51,510
if you're not getting where you want to be,

323
00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:52,710
there's something

324
00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:55,320
wrong with your strategy. Right. Or

325
00:11:55,330 --> 00:11:57,440
there's something wrong with your methodology.

326
00:11:57,610 --> 00:11:59,210
And so when people decide

327
00:11:59,260 --> 00:12:00,760
to look deep into what it

328
00:12:00,770 --> 00:12:02,550
is they're going after and look at, well,

329
00:12:02,590 --> 00:12:04,930
it's working for them over there, right?

330
00:12:05,020 --> 00:12:06,000
There's two tea companies

331
00:12:06,050 --> 00:12:07,440
here that were successful, right? So it's like,

332
00:12:07,450 --> 00:12:08,630
if it's working for them,

333
00:12:08,750 --> 00:12:10,340
something they're doing is working.

334
00:12:10,450 --> 00:12:12,540
I bet I can go do that same thing, too, if I

335
00:12:12,570 --> 00:12:15,170
wanted to get my own nerdy tea company, right,

336
00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:16,490
or nerdy coffee company,

337
00:12:16,620 --> 00:12:18,700
somehow they figured it out.

338
00:12:18,810 --> 00:12:20,220
Now, the one thing he did say was,

339
00:12:20,250 --> 00:12:21,810
don't ever start a coffee shop.

340
00:12:22,750 --> 00:12:23,770
And I think there's something

341
00:12:23,820 --> 00:12:27,360
to that in post Covid retail. Right, like that.

342
00:12:27,390 --> 00:12:28,820
There's a lot of people who are like,

343
00:12:28,870 --> 00:12:31,650
don't do this because of the really,

344
00:12:31,730 --> 00:12:34,560
really hard last few

345
00:12:34,630 --> 00:12:36,900
years that brick and mortar has had.

346
00:12:36,990 --> 00:12:40,120
So I can absolutely appreciate where, you know,

347
00:12:40,150 --> 00:12:40,950
many worlds tavern

348
00:12:40,980 --> 00:12:42,960
was coming from in that moment.

349
00:12:43,110 --> 00:12:45,570
Yeah. I think there's a common thread of,

350
00:12:45,690 --> 00:12:46,220
if you're going to

351
00:12:46,230 --> 00:12:47,400
have a brick and mortar location,

352
00:12:47,470 --> 00:12:48,390
make sure that you have a

353
00:12:48,420 --> 00:12:50,750
good online presence to support that.

354
00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:52,520
And not a lot of people really talked

355
00:12:52,550 --> 00:12:54,330
about having a brick and mortar presence.

356
00:12:54,510 --> 00:12:56,210
No, most of them do not. Right.

357
00:12:56,260 --> 00:12:59,100
There was candles who did? But, you know,

358
00:12:59,150 --> 00:13:02,030
and there was many worlds who also did.

359
00:13:02,140 --> 00:13:05,040
But most of these people were con heavy.

360
00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:06,220
And what I really liked about

361
00:13:06,250 --> 00:13:08,590
it was when I asked everybody, you know,

362
00:13:08,620 --> 00:13:09,470
how many cons they did,

363
00:13:09,500 --> 00:13:11,130
there were so many people who were like, oh,

364
00:13:11,140 --> 00:13:13,580
I've done, like, ten cons, 20 cons.

365
00:13:13,650 --> 00:13:14,720
There was even geekify

366
00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:16,660
who they did 30 cons in a year,

367
00:13:16,750 --> 00:13:18,240
and they've been doing it for years.

368
00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:20,350
So you start thinking about, you know,

369
00:13:20,390 --> 00:13:21,390
what is the importance

370
00:13:21,430 --> 00:13:24,010
of cons to certain businesses?

371
00:13:24,140 --> 00:13:25,370
There are many of them that

372
00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:27,770
were just focused on doing cons.

373
00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:29,710
They put it into their schedule,

374
00:13:29,830 --> 00:13:31,690
and that was how they ran their business,

375
00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:33,010
was they go there,

376
00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:35,010
they have three or four, five days,

377
00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:36,610
whatever it is, for the con, and

378
00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:39,280
they just crush it for those four or five days.

379
00:13:39,370 --> 00:13:41,770
And then they go out to. They come back,

380
00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:42,520
they make more product,

381
00:13:42,570 --> 00:13:43,570
and they go out to the next con.

382
00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:44,700
And it's just like that,

383
00:13:44,810 --> 00:13:46,660
their business cycle.

384
00:13:46,770 --> 00:13:47,740
And you know what?

385
00:13:47,770 --> 00:13:48,740
There's nothing wrong with that.

386
00:13:48,770 --> 00:13:50,440
It's a lot of work in certain times,

387
00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:51,860
but they're really serving

388
00:13:51,910 --> 00:13:53,820
their nerdy hobby and helping them out.

389
00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:56,220
Yeah, that reminds me, on a not

390
00:13:56,290 --> 00:13:57,900
at PAx was this brought up,

391
00:13:57,930 --> 00:14:01,220
but with Sienna Art Studios,

392
00:14:01,270 --> 00:14:02,380
who we have yet.

393
00:14:02,430 --> 00:14:03,650
Have not released yet.

394
00:14:03,700 --> 00:14:05,740
But we,

395
00:14:05,790 --> 00:14:06,620
when we spoke to her,

396
00:14:06,650 --> 00:14:09,050
one of the things that was brought up was

397
00:14:09,140 --> 00:14:12,750
cons and how she at, for a one, at one point,

398
00:14:12,820 --> 00:14:14,960
Washington going to all of these events,

399
00:14:15,010 --> 00:14:16,770
and it was just back to back to back.

400
00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:18,210
Just enough time for her.

401
00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:20,000
She said she didn't even have enough time

402
00:14:20,030 --> 00:14:22,380
to make the product in between the events.

403
00:14:22,420 --> 00:14:24,840
She just had enough time beforehand

404
00:14:24,870 --> 00:14:26,910
to make all the product and then put it

405
00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:29,010
into batches in preparation for when

406
00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:31,410
she would go to these events. She'd fly back,

407
00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:32,320
get everything she needed,

408
00:14:32,370 --> 00:14:35,000
go to the event, fly back, get more stuff.

409
00:14:35,150 --> 00:14:37,140
And you got to think about it like

410
00:14:37,180 --> 00:14:39,050
that when you have all these products.

411
00:14:39,180 --> 00:14:41,960
But I'm glad you went this direction,

412
00:14:42,010 --> 00:14:44,670
because all the people we spoke

413
00:14:44,710 --> 00:14:46,850
to were selling a physical product.

414
00:14:47,190 --> 00:14:48,890
Everybody had a physical product,

415
00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:50,730
and everyone said,

416
00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:54,620
these cons are so important for them.

417
00:14:54,730 --> 00:14:56,170
And Tinker House really.

418
00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:58,000
I think Tinkerhouse games

419
00:14:58,050 --> 00:15:00,970
really drove this point. Sorry, the terrain,

420
00:15:01,100 --> 00:15:01,930
Tinkerhouse terrain,

421
00:15:01,980 --> 00:15:04,500
they really drove the point home of this

422
00:15:04,530 --> 00:15:07,150
is huge for us because our shipping costs

423
00:15:07,260 --> 00:15:10,050
are kind of expensive because our product

424
00:15:10,130 --> 00:15:13,120
is kind of heavy. You know, it's. It's compact,

425
00:15:13,270 --> 00:15:14,870
but it's pretty heavy stuff.

426
00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:16,310
It's dense cardboard.

427
00:15:16,610 --> 00:15:17,910
And so shipping,

428
00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:20,590
it creates this barrier, this

429
00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:24,960
of a price point for consumers, for customers.

430
00:15:25,070 --> 00:15:27,300
So if they can see it, feel it,

431
00:15:27,310 --> 00:15:28,900
and look at the quality,

432
00:15:29,070 --> 00:15:31,050
it's much easier for them to buy it, especially

433
00:15:31,130 --> 00:15:32,670
because they're not having to pay for shipping.

434
00:15:32,700 --> 00:15:33,470
They're at the con.

435
00:15:33,540 --> 00:15:35,620
All they do is pay for it and take it.

436
00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:37,860
So I think cons are really good

437
00:15:37,900 --> 00:15:39,680
for people who have physical products,

438
00:15:40,260 --> 00:15:41,600
especially if your

439
00:15:41,630 --> 00:15:44,360
product heavily relies on touching, feeling,

440
00:15:44,390 --> 00:15:45,760
or even smelling.

441
00:15:45,790 --> 00:15:47,170
In the case of tea and coffee.

442
00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:49,700
There was a lot of con tips that we got, too,

443
00:15:49,740 --> 00:15:50,490
and I don't know if I can

444
00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:51,700
run through all of them that we got,

445
00:15:51,740 --> 00:15:53,960
but I thought it was

446
00:15:54,010 --> 00:15:57,000
interesting that for a lot of people,

447
00:15:57,420 --> 00:15:59,390
their advice was, yeah, try a con.

448
00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:00,900
It's a great way to test

449
00:16:00,940 --> 00:16:05,190
your market and confront your market, you know?

450
00:16:05,310 --> 00:16:09,270
So the idea of a first step for a nerdpreneur

451
00:16:09,350 --> 00:16:12,430
might be going to a con or picking

452
00:16:12,470 --> 00:16:16,390
a local small convention where, you know,

453
00:16:16,470 --> 00:16:19,240
your ideal client is,

454
00:16:19,410 --> 00:16:21,540
and just go, you know,

455
00:16:21,570 --> 00:16:23,290
you don't have to commit to a comic

456
00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:25,570
con or a pax west for your first con.

457
00:16:25,620 --> 00:16:26,790
Those are a little more expensive.

458
00:16:26,870 --> 00:16:29,510
But every city, you know,

459
00:16:29,580 --> 00:16:30,910
usually wherever you are,

460
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:32,950
will be having some form of

461
00:16:32,980 --> 00:16:35,340
nerdy or anime or whatever type

462
00:16:35,350 --> 00:16:38,460
of convention where you can go and be,

463
00:16:38,510 --> 00:16:40,750
as an independent business owner,

464
00:16:41,690 --> 00:16:42,670
access your nerdy

465
00:16:42,700 --> 00:16:46,150
culture and confront it firsthand.

466
00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:47,480
So many of them said, yeah,

467
00:16:47,510 --> 00:16:50,750
just give it a shot and iterate. You know,

468
00:16:51,210 --> 00:16:53,560
when I was talking to the candle people,

469
00:16:53,670 --> 00:16:55,340
Dragon's den candlest,

470
00:16:55,380 --> 00:16:56,330
that's how they started.

471
00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:58,850
They just sort of did a very small

472
00:16:59,790 --> 00:17:02,120
con in their local area, New England.

473
00:17:02,210 --> 00:17:03,800
And this was actually the

474
00:17:03,930 --> 00:17:05,589
first time they'd ever been

475
00:17:05,630 --> 00:17:08,329
outside of New England for their cons.

476
00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:09,609
And so it was,

477
00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:11,650
this was a cool thing for them to be able

478
00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:14,970
to be in a place that wasn't their, their home.

479
00:17:15,160 -